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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Many times I've written a line I really liked, only to realize (sometimes years later) that grammatically (or, as grammatically taught) it was incorrect even though it sounded right. So I'd go back and change it, but then I'd always wind up going back to the best sounding again. And that's pretty much what I go with today, what sounds the best. This always drove me crazy, though.  The Harbrace College Handbook, now published in its 13th editon by Hodges, has an entire chapter addressing this issue entitled, Agreement. Here's the url, although you have to register to get in (I have a print copy): http://www.hbcollege.com/english/comp/college/
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
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The way I see it, much of the confusion here stems from the ultimately fruitless effort to separate form from content. Nobody in their  right mind would affirm that all women like football: this restricts the choice of possible meanings, unlike in the case of the Bali example (where a comma would make everything much clearer). I think grammar is good as a guide, but bad as a judge over habit and common sense.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I think grammar is good as a guide, but bad as a judge over habit and common sense.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
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From the Prentice Hall Reference Guide to Grammar and Usage, first ed. (I think there's a new 4th ed. out now), 1991, p. 87: In the phrase one of those who (or which or that) it is necessary to decide whether the who, which or that refers to only one or to the whole group. Only then can you decide whether the verb is singular or plural. "Rena is one of those shoppers who only buy things on sale." In this case, Rena is part of a large group, shoppers who only buy things on sale, and acts like them. Therefore, who takes a plural verb because it refers to shoppers. "The American Dictionary is the only one of the dictionaries on that shelf that includes Latin words." In this case the American Dictionary is not part of the group. Therefore, that refers back to one and takes a singular verb. Zat authority enough for y'all, Jackie, CapK and Keiva?
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Zat authority enough for y'all, Jackie, CapK and Keiva?
Not for me, based on what you posted, ie., "In this case, Rena is part of a large group, shoppers who only buy things on sale, and acts like them. Therefore, who takes a plural verb because it refers to shoppers."
I certainly agree that In the phrase one of those who (orwhich or that) it is necessary to decide whether the who, which or that refers to only one or to the whole group. Only then can you decide whether the verb is singular or plural..
In the example given, I can't agree that the verb should be plural--on what basis did the writer decide this? Give me context! If the preceding conversation had been about, say, local retail economy (perhaps the speaker was referring to a survey that had been taken), yes. But if it happened to be someone who had been discussing Rena, then this could have been just a comment about one aspect of her life, and the verb should be singular. IMHO.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Zat authority enough for y'all
The onliest authority I listens to are the one which I spent all those years from zero to five labouriously building inside my very own head without no he'p from nobody else cept only giving me zamples to work from.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
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"Someone told me something and I forgot what they said."
Your example may be grammatically incorrect, Jackie, but it is politically correct and, nowadays, politically correct trumps every other form of correctness. In your example, choosing the singular would force you into the chauvinistic "he" or the inelegant "he/she". Hence, "they" becomes the lesser of all incorrect evils. What would you say to that ASp?
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Joined: Nov 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Not sure I understand the rules behind the theme of this thread, but would the following fit?
I refer to people saying "It's people like Smith that make the Dung Beetles a great team".
There is only one Mr Smith in the team - so how can it be people like him??
notbackyet stales
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