#51074
12/28/2001 1:15 PM
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A friend, playing an american, used the subject line.. It is a very american thing to do, but many of us hate it.. since my job is IT support, i get a lot of variations of the line-- and i have a number of different responses.. (unfortunately, none of them is entirely effective... but it keeps me from going crazy!)
how do you respond to Can i ask you a question?
Just one? We offer discounts on three or more.
I have a question....
Ans: and i have answers! shall we see if any of my answers match your question?
Can i ask you...
Anything! but remember i don't kiss and tell!
Do you mind if i ask?
If i said yes, would it stop you?
i don't use any of the answers snidely, but all rather lightheartedly.. and one or two people have actually changed! and get right to the question!
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#51075
12/28/2001 1:46 PM
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of Troy:
I like a lot these ironic responses. Please don't ask me to define irony. I just know they are in someone's mind out there who sees irony as I do.
Thanks for this!
DubDub
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#51076
12/28/2001 1:52 PM
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Putting aside considerations of Can I/May I, I think possible translations of the phrase are "Can you spend some [significant] time with my concern?" or "Are you free right now?", or even more simply, "Knock, knock." It's not really a guestion, more a ritualized greeting/introduction like "Hi, how are you?" Responses addressing only the words are all going to be awkward in one way or another, as (being off the subject) they should.
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#51077
12/28/2001 2:05 PM
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Sometimes, my dear helen, you just have to realize that people are going to open this way, understand what they mean even if the way they say it doesn't match what you feel should be the "proper" way and say something really witty, like, "Go ahead, that's what I'm here for." For a follow up lesson, listen to yourself and see if you say things that may be similarly creatively misinterpreted by the pedantic nitpicker (not that *I would know what *that would be) and follow the Golden Rule, doing unto others etc.
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#51078
12/28/2001 2:22 PM
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May I ask you a question? For, surely, you can if the bloody cat ain't got your tongue over there among the mideastern king's cats!!!
I am really, really cranky today. I apologize in advance for all I write today.
Beastly regards,
WildeWind
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#51079
12/28/2001 2:31 PM
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In my callow youth I took careful notice (philologist even then) of the use of can vs may in this context. Except for the times our elders were excoriating us for the "misuse" of can for may the only time I heard may used "properly", whether by us children or by the excoriant elders, was in the children's game Mother May I?. We learned to use can from those very elders who upbraided us for that usage.
Post Edit: I haven't the foggiest idea why the font decided to change in midstream.
Post-post Edit D'oh. I had [/i] in front of that may where the font changed. Live and learn.
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#51080
12/28/2001 2:43 PM
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(Apology in advance for being chatty...but)
Dear Faldage,
You wrote:
We learned to use can from those very elders who upbraided us for that usage.
Well, you're obviously not from the South. At least not from the Old Dominion. We still wrangle that rope over may and can--mayhem and canhem still iz taught here.
This has not been a good day.
Without a sense of humor (or humour, as if I give a dang),
DubDub
It's gotta have to do with the Moon!
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#51081
12/28/2001 2:52 PM
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mayhem and canhem still iz taught here.
So wherefrom did y'all learn the "misuse" of can that it is there to be hemmed about?
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#51082
12/28/2001 3:14 PM
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And, Faldage, here you are so Bold:
So wherefrom did y'all learn the "misuse" of can that it is there to be hemmed about?
Here in Vir-gin-eye-aye, we're too close to the Mason-Dixon to drop into "y'alls"--except in the mountains, but them there varmints are altogether different from the bloody FFV's!
You gotta git into the 'Carolinas before you hear the dadburned "y'alls."
And what are your references, F? Yeah, yeah, I know we've got an abundance of "You alls," but we don't speak "y'alls," and DeWitt is pretty darned close to the North Carolina line.
We still do teach the difference between can and may. Hey, it may fall on deaf ears, but we teach the dadburded distinction. (And there's the students thinking, "Can you do it, can you do it!" while we write egregiously frustrated on our black and white--read: high tech--boards.)
I've gotta go offline. Today is still not a good day.
Best regards in the spirit of tolerance,
come may as you will,
Poor, poor DubDub
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#51084
12/28/2001 3:23 PM
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The classic pedantic bespectacled New England teacher's response to the question is, of course, to say archly
"You CAN, but you MAY not!"
but I thought we put that consideration aside, way up at the top of the thread! :-)
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#51085
12/28/2001 3:39 PM
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Hmmm. (re:WoN's comment two posts above)
See, that's the problem with having fifty thousand posts: one loses track of what's gone before. I guess we'll have to chalk it up to the the fact that the irritation (unintended, mostly, I'm sure) hasn't gone away even though we went discussed it months ago (post #s in the 33000's, it looks like). And rather thoroughly, too, and came to the pretty much the same conclusions then...
I didn't check: how many of the participants of that thread are still active? most? some? just a few?
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#51086
12/28/2001 3:52 PM
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It never hurts to say "Please may I..." As a tease, few New Yorkers know what "please" means.
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#51087
12/28/2001 4:14 PM
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New Yorkers may not, wwh, but we Virginians do! [rapsberry!!!}
Wordwinded
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#51088
12/28/2001 6:48 PM
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We still do teach the difference between can and may.
Well, you're too late. We are not taught English if we are native speakers. We learn it, some say re-invent it, long before we get into a situation where we are learning it from any formal teachers. Some are capable of relearning, some appear not to be, when they find themselves in the formal learning situation. Some learn both versions of the language and use the one in normal situations and the other in formal situations. If the parents used can and may properly when the child is in those important years between about 0 and 4 when the glory that is language is forming whole out of Zeus' brow then there would be no need for the teachers to pound the "correct" form into the 5 and on up year olds' brains.
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#51089
12/29/2001 12:12 AM
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Dear Faldage,
You wrote:
We are not taught English if we are native speakers. We learn it, some say re-invent it, long before we get into a situation where we are learning it from any formal teachers.
I agree with the broad stroke you make above. I was talking about teaching the difference between may and can.
And then those fine distinctions between lie and lay, which only the astronomically gifted seem to understand anymore. I just about blow a gasket everytime I hear someone (everyone, just about) say, "Tell that dog to lay down." Or "I'm going to lay down." That's the language that is heard and absorbed here, and it takes an awful lot of patience to try to untangle that embedded ball of learnin' in students' brains. Mostly: Mission accomplished for the test, but soon aborted afterwards.
Just tell that Pet Peeve to lay on down so you kin find out if you kin ask it a question.
There are eight errors in the above sentence. Extra credit given for identifying all of them.
Best regards,
DubDub
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#51090
12/29/2001 12:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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"Tell that dog to lay down." Or "I'm going to lay down."
Augh--makes me grit my teeth!!!
Just tell that Pet Peeve to lay on down so you kin find out if you kin ask it a question.
There are eight errors in the above sentence. Extra credit given for identifying all of them.
1. kin for can (first kin)
2. kin for can should be may (second kin)
3. should be pet
4. there's no comma after pet
5. there's no comma after Peeve
6. LIE down!!
7. on is unnecessary
8. if should be whether
Do I get an A, huh, huh, Teach?
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#51091
12/29/2001 1:09 AM
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Yours works, Jackie, so you get extra credit, but I scan the thing differently. We're in pretty close alignment.
Why don't we ask A.L.I.C.E.? No, no, no. I never have luck with her. Why don't we ask Consuelo to ask Alice. They be tight!
Perpetually at the back of the class,
DubDunce
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#51092
12/29/2001 1:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
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The reason Alice won't play fun games with you is because you insist on " having it out with this orderly universe".  I just seem to be able to pick up on whatever it is that makes her want to play. Maybe I'm cyberpsychic.  At any rate, I doubt that she would shed any light on the errors of that sentence. She'd probably just twist it up and smoke it.[shrug-e]
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#51093
12/29/2001 2:07 AM
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There is another question I hear frequently that prompts a similar reaction in me. I usually hear this when I'm head and shoulders into a job, or half stretched out on the floor trying to get an accurate count on how many hundreds of bottles of Suave shampoo are on the shelf. "Excuse me, but, do you work here?" I really really really want to hit them with the snappy comeback "No. I just do this purely for entertainment purposes." Or "Of course I do, you idiot, whaddya think?" 
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#51094
12/29/2001 5:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
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My favorite response is, "Well, you can ask, but I don't promise to answer."
A friend has this sign over his desk:
RATE SCHEDULE FOR ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
- Wild Guesses: $1
- Educated Guesses: $2
- Half-assed answers: $3
- Correct answers: $10 and up
- Dumb looks are still free.
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#51095
12/29/2001 2:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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"Tell that dog to lay down."There's nothing wrong with this sentence! You've just misinterpreted it. The dog has feathers, and he's going to apply said feathers to the floor, wall, or some other spot, as a bricklayer would lay bricks. There, Dub Dub, don't you feel better now?
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#51096
12/29/2001 4:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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The "lie"/"lay" argument only holds good in the US. No one in my part of the world (either of them) would ever say "I'm going to lay down". Just ain't natcharule. Anyway, back to Helen's original question. The problem is that "Can I ask you a question?" is a closed question in itself. There are only three possible answers (staying away from facetious responses): "Yes", "No" and ... silence. The one I like, because it plays straight into my hands (rub, rub, evil leer), is "Are you free?". What kind of a question is that? Still, it's asked all the time. I have a set of responses which I trot out depending on circumstances: "No." That one is a real show-stopper and when used leads to consternation on the part of the questioner, because s/he generally doesn't know what to say next. "Of course. Slavery was abolished long before I was born." This one generally results in nervous titters. If I think it's appropriate  , I then add "But I sold out and became a wage slave anyway." At this point the interlocutor quite often gives up. This is generally my intention. "No, of course not. D'you think I don't get paid for this crap?" Accompanied by holding your hand out, of course. I've actually had one woman reach into her purse at that point ... "No, it cost me too much to get my body into this shape not to want some payback." Those of you who have met me will understand the confusion this engenders. And lots of variations. Try it, especially in a work situation. My boss once asked me if I was free, and I asked him if that meant there was no paycheck at the end of the month. You gotta find your fun where you can, don't you?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#51097
12/29/2001 5:02 PM
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Posts: 6,296
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Geoff writes: Tell that dog to lay down.
...and, finally!, I understand what they've been saying around here all these years! Thank you, thank you, Geoff! I have seen the light--fluffy feathers.
Best regards,
DubDub, who is goin to lie down on this one, heart at ease.
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#51098
12/29/2001 5:41 PM
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Posts: 2,605
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"Tell that dog to lay down."Geoff says, "The dog has feathers, and he's going to apply said feathers ... as a bricklayer would lay bricks."I see, Geoff. Query: when a woman tells you, "Down, boy!", do you understand that to be an invitational reference to the materials in her pillow or featherbed?
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#51099
12/29/2001 5:45 PM
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The one I like, because it plays straight into my hands (rub, rub, evil leer), is "Are you free?"
A response potentially in a different direction is, "No, but I'm worth every penny."
Nothing is as expensive as a woman who's free for the evening.
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#51100
12/29/2001 7:02 PM
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Boy howdy! I just shudder to think what y'all'd say if someone was so rude as to ask you, "How do you do?"
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#51101
12/30/2001 10:45 PM
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I just shudder to think what y'all'd say if someone was so rude as to ask you, "How do you do?"
Faldage, I'm unsure to whom were you referring, but it appears you were wondering how CK would respond to said rude inquiry. If so, you may perhaps find a clue in CK's recent announcement that his personal credo is, "Do unto others as they would do unto you. But do it first ..."
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#51102
12/30/2001 10:52 PM
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it appears you were wondering how CK would respond to said rude inquiry
It was directed in general at all who would take offense at what is merely a bit of social lubrication.
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#51103
12/30/2001 11:22 PM
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It was directed in general at all who would take offense at what is merely a bit of social lubrication.Oh, I don't take offence (if this was directed in any way at all at me) when people ask me if I'm free. I just, as I said at the end of my post, enjoy the opportunities that arise in my life ... And the credo bit - well, you can take it two ways, you know?  I do.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#51104
12/31/2001 12:36 AM
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I don't take offence
Oh, if you're just throwing some sand into the social lubricant then I suppose it's OK.
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#51105
12/31/2001 2:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
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Oh, I suppose if you are just throwing some sand into the social lubricant then I suppose it's OK. faldage
But it's not. Good manners, courtesies, and social conventions are necessary products of social evolution.
Well, well, Faldage, you give your OK rather easily for a street fighter.
Milum.
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#51106
12/31/2001 4:17 AM
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If you want to have some more fun, CapK, the next time you ask someone, How do you do?, How're you doing?, or How are you today?, and they answer fine or just fine, immediately say, And you? This leaves them completely lost, and some of the looks and reactions are priceless!  Q: Hello, how're you doin'? A: Fine. Q: And you? A: Uhhhhhhhh.....
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#51107
12/31/2001 7:43 AM
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But it's not. Good manners, courtesies, and social conventions are necessary products of social evolution.Hmmm. Well, I chew my food with my mouth closed, generally say "please" when I want something, and don't walk around nekkid. I think that covers your points!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#51108
12/31/2001 10:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
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Hmmm, well I chew my food with my mouth closed, generally say "Please" when I want something, and don't run around nakkid. I think that covers your points. Capital Kiwi
Yes, and we are very proud of you, Capital Kiwi.
aside: See what I mean, Faldage? the boys i mean are not refined...Milum.
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#51109
12/31/2001 1:16 PM
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[white]See what I mean, Faldage? the boys i mean are not refined [/white]
Well, ifn you weren't mean to them you wouldn't have to refined them wunst you'd founed them in the first place.
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#51110
01/02/2002 12:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
stranger
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stranger
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CapK insists: Well, I...generally...don't walk around nekkid...I think that covers your points!
um, was that intentional? [titter-e]
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#51111
01/02/2002 10:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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um, was that intentional? [titter-e]
Archie. Is that as in Bunker? In answer to your question, well, no. If I'd intended a pun (and heaven forfend that I should take the Remington punmeister head on) I would probably have said "my" points, not "yours".
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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