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The classic pedantic bespectacled New England teacher's response to the question is, of course, to say archly
"You CAN, but you MAY not!"
but I thought we put that consideration aside, way up at the top of the thread! :-)
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hmmm. (re:WoN's comment two posts above)
See, that's the problem with having fifty thousand posts: one loses track of what's gone before. I guess we'll have to chalk it up to the the fact that the irritation (unintended, mostly, I'm sure) hasn't gone away even though we went discussed it months ago (post #s in the 33000's, it looks like). And rather thoroughly, too, and came to the pretty much the same conclusions then...
I didn't check: how many of the participants of that thread are still active? most? some? just a few?
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Carpal Tunnel
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It never hurts to say "Please may I..." As a tease, few New Yorkers know what "please" means.
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New Yorkers may not, wwh, but we Virginians do! [rapsberry!!!}
Wordwinded
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We still do teach the difference between can and may.
Well, you're too late. We are not taught English if we are native speakers. We learn it, some say re-invent it, long before we get into a situation where we are learning it from any formal teachers. Some are capable of relearning, some appear not to be, when they find themselves in the formal learning situation. Some learn both versions of the language and use the one in normal situations and the other in formal situations. If the parents used can and may properly when the child is in those important years between about 0 and 4 when the glory that is language is forming whole out of Zeus' brow then there would be no need for the teachers to pound the "correct" form into the 5 and on up year olds' brains.
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Dear Faldage,
You wrote:
We are not taught English if we are native speakers. We learn it, some say re-invent it, long before we get into a situation where we are learning it from any formal teachers.
I agree with the broad stroke you make above. I was talking about teaching the difference between may and can.
And then those fine distinctions between lie and lay, which only the astronomically gifted seem to understand anymore. I just about blow a gasket everytime I hear someone (everyone, just about) say, "Tell that dog to lay down." Or "I'm going to lay down." That's the language that is heard and absorbed here, and it takes an awful lot of patience to try to untangle that embedded ball of learnin' in students' brains. Mostly: Mission accomplished for the test, but soon aborted afterwards.
Just tell that Pet Peeve to lay on down so you kin find out if you kin ask it a question.
There are eight errors in the above sentence. Extra credit given for identifying all of them.
Best regards,
DubDub
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"Tell that dog to lay down." Or "I'm going to lay down."
Augh--makes me grit my teeth!!!
Just tell that Pet Peeve to lay on down so you kin find out if you kin ask it a question.
There are eight errors in the above sentence. Extra credit given for identifying all of them.
1. kin for can (first kin)
2. kin for can should be may (second kin)
3. should be pet
4. there's no comma after pet
5. there's no comma after Peeve
6. LIE down!!
7. on is unnecessary
8. if should be whether
Do I get an A, huh, huh, Teach?
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Yours works, Jackie, so you get extra credit, but I scan the thing differently. We're in pretty close alignment.
Why don't we ask A.L.I.C.E.? No, no, no. I never have luck with her. Why don't we ask Consuelo to ask Alice. They be tight!
Perpetually at the back of the class,
DubDunce
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The reason Alice won't play fun games with you is because you insist on " having it out with this orderly universe".  I just seem to be able to pick up on whatever it is that makes her want to play. Maybe I'm cyberpsychic.  At any rate, I doubt that she would shed any light on the errors of that sentence. She'd probably just twist it up and smoke it.[shrug-e]
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There is another question I hear frequently that prompts a similar reaction in me. I usually hear this when I'm head and shoulders into a job, or half stretched out on the floor trying to get an accurate count on how many hundreds of bottles of Suave shampoo are on the shelf. "Excuse me, but, do you work here?" I really really really want to hit them with the snappy comeback "No. I just do this purely for entertainment purposes." Or "Of course I do, you idiot, whaddya think?" 
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