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#50973 12/28/2001 10:14 AM
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Why do we say, "Eating high on the hog"? Highest on the hog would be its head, and that's all scrapple to me. And the back isn't as nice as its hams or loin meat. (Many apologies to any vegetarians here.)

So, what's so great about what's high on the hog anyway?

Boar regards,
DubDub


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(Many apologies to any vegetarians here.)
Very thoughtful of you, Dear. High on the hog is where the loin chops, the most valuable cuts, come from. Just below the fatback.

You can read about how to slaughter and process a pig here:
http://members.tripod.com/~BayGourmet/pig.txt.
Warning! This is not for the faint-hearted. I've seen hogs killed both on the home farm and commercially, and this article just about made ME sick.




#50975 12/30/2001 11:27 PM
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As Jackie said. In Why You Say It, Webb Garrison says, "But for a real feast, slices [of the hog] must come from high on the hog -- above the center of the animal's leg.


#50976 12/31/2001 2:34 PM
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You ain't seen nothin' till you see sausage being made. They have the ground up meat (everything except the squeal) piped to a faucet with a tapered faucet, push one end of a roll of casing onto it, turn the knob, and the casing swells and thrashes about like a monstrous snake. All sorts of fantasies evoked.


#50977 12/31/2001 3:27 PM
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All sorts of fantasies evoked.

I'll bet, wwh, I'll just bet.

DubDoubtless



#50978 12/31/2001 5:02 PM
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You ain't seen nothin' till you see sausage being made.
As has been said, "Those who love law or sausage should not view too closely the process by which it is made."

everything except the squeal The phrase is used in Upton Sinclair's description of Chicago's meat packing industry (The Jungle, ch. 3: the tour guide says "They use everything about the hog except the squeal"), but I believe Sinclair was using what was already a commonplace description of the industry's efficiency.

Edit: Ch. 14 of The Jungle makes clear that the phrase predates with that book. In The Yankee of the Yards (1927), a biography of Gustavus Swift, it is at called a "hackneyed remark", with conjecture that it originated with a remark by Swift had been heard to make.

Edit #2: The remark does not mean that Chicago meatpackers systematically adulterated food products with unpalatable parts to the animal. Rather, "The enormous volume of animals meant that even body parts that had formerly been wasted now became commercial products: lard, glue, brushes, candles, soaps." A later federal report listed six hundred separate products produced by the pork and beef packers. The industry required such efficient use of the whole animal, for meat-sales alone did not cover costs of production, without the sales of hides and other by-products.

#50979 12/31/2001 5:56 PM
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Now I wonder what sort of character, upon having just sat through a public reading of The Jungle, would archly intone, "Proscuitto, anyone?"

Veins of ice, I'd say.

Best regards,
WW


#50980 12/31/2001 8:30 PM
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"Those who love law or sausage should not view too closely the process by which it is made."

Believe that was uttered by our old buddy, Otto von Bismarck, aka the Great Unifier of Germany. offered without comment...


#50981 01/01/2002 11:13 PM
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High on the hog is where the loin chops, the most valuable cuts, come from

true, and this may well be the source of part of the idiom, but it also seems likely that the "hog" referred to is the early british colonial coin (bermuda/hog-money/YCLIU), and that living high off of the hog refers to the "high life" resulting from having money to burn? the phrase "whole hog" likely stems from the same source.

and shouldn't this be in animal safari?


#50982 01/01/2002 11:21 PM
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Dear MaxQ: My dictionary says hogs are pigs that are ready for market.


#50984 01/02/2002 1:36 AM
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Sweet Max, 'round these parts, hogs are exclusively male pigs. Females are sows. (Sow rhyming with cow.) No farmer I knew would ever say "the hogs" when referring to a group that he knew contained both genders. That would be "the pigs".


#50985 01/02/2002 1:49 AM
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#50986 01/02/2002 2:10 AM
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My grandpa used to raise pigs. I can still smell that sour pig-slop smell. When I was little, my sister and I used to throw corncobs at the boars. Extra points were awarded for hitting them you-know-where. Boy did they grunt then! And run! Little kids can be so cruel.


#50987 01/02/2002 2:53 AM
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Jackie, I'd disagree with you on this, and think "hog" means the mature animal, of either gender.

BUT: bartleby-ing indicates that:
-hog can either mean (1a) the animal, whether domesticated or the wild, or (1b) the domesticated animal, but especially one weighing over 54 kilograms (120 pounds)
-boar can either mean the adult male, or the uncastrated male, or the wild boar.
-pig means a member of this biological family, but "especially the domesticated hog ... when young or of comparatively small size."

Ogden Nash claims a different distinction between pig and hog:
Why does the pygmy
Indulge in polygmy?
His tribal dogma
Frowns on monogma.
Monogma's a stigma
To any pigma:
If he goes for monogmy
A pygmy's a hogmy.



#50988 01/02/2002 4:11 AM
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hogs are exclusively male pigs.

So then males can't be chauvinist pigs, they can only be chauvinist hogs!


#50989 01/02/2002 4:25 AM
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But Nash had this to say about the pig!

THE PIG

The pig, if I am not mistaken,
Supplies us sausage, ham, and bacon.
Let others say his heart is big--
I call it stupid of the pig.

Ogden Nash
from his collection, "Food."
© 1989 by Frances Nash, Isabel Eberstadt, and Linell Smith



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Dear MaxQ: My dictionary says hogs are pigs that are ready for market.

My trusty Webster's says: hog, noun.
1. A pig, esp. one that is full-grown
2. An animal related to the pig, as the peccary.

Now I have never heard of a peccary myself, so in looking that up, I found:
peccary, noun. Either of two species of tropical American animals resembling and related to pigs.

Doesn't this appear to be going in circles?


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Doesn't this appear to be going in circles?

"Blessed are those who go around in circles for they shall be known as Big Wheels."

Merrily we roll along, roll along, roll along ...."



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RE: the peccary.

i've always thought of this as the complete family of pigs.. nowdays, with all sort of "pot bellied" pig being considered house pets, even city folk like me recognize that pigs is a very general term. Peccary is the family of pigs, including wild species of boars, warthogs, and all variety of domesticate pigs. it shows up in lots of the latin names for pigs, so if you know pigs mostly from the zoo, as i do, it actually is a pretty common word.


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Bumper sticker available in the late '60s.


#50994 01/02/2002 4:53 PM
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WON cites Ogden Nash from his collection, "Food." © 1989 by Frances Nash, Isabel Eberstadt, and Linell Smith

Internal evidence (his poems) indicates that these there women are his wife and two daughers. Lovely examples:

- linell and isabel: http://littlecalamity.tripod.com/Poetry/Children.html the 4th & 12th poems
- isabel: http://www.plagiarist.com/poetry/?wid=530
- frances: unfortunately, none on-line

#50995 01/02/2002 4:58 PM
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According to this glossary, http://checc.sph.unc.edu/rooms/school/whole_hog/glossary.html

Boar - A male hog used for breeding purposes. Boars weigh about 500 pounds.

Farrow - A litter of pigs; giving birth. The hog industry uses the expression "Farrow to Finish" to describe operations that contain pigs from birth to market ready.

Feeder pig - A weaned pig up to about 10 to 12 weeks of age, weighing 40 to 50 pounds. Feeder pigs are brought to market weight during the finishing process

Piglet - Common term for a baby pig.

Sow - A female hog used for breeding purposes. Sows generally weigh between 450 and 500 pounds. Some hog operations specialize in handling sows and their litters only.

Swine - Another term for hog.


The glossary does not define "hog," but the implication of the definitions of "boar" and "sow" is that "hog" encompasses both sexes and describes a domesticated pig raised for food. I will try to remember to call my pig-farmer friend for more explication.







#50996 01/02/2002 5:15 PM
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For a discussion of "Hogmanay" see Takeourwordforit at:

http://www.takeourword.com/Issue109.html Scroll down to Spotlight


#50997 01/02/2002 5:26 PM
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>For a discussion of "Hogmanay"...

thus making any connection to "hog money" an afterwit.

welcome back[whiter than white]again[/whiter than white], caradea!]

#50998 01/02/2002 6:14 PM
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Dear Sparteye: "Boar - A male hog used for breeding purpose" Same as using a steer for breeding purposes.


#50999 01/02/2002 6:22 PM
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Dear Dr. Bill

Same as using a steer for breeding purposes

You have uncovered a reference that claims hog implies that a ball disconnectomy has been performed?


#51000 01/02/2002 6:43 PM
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Dear Faldage: I doubt very much that you would care to eat boar meat, unless ground extra fine. You couldn't put a fork in the gravy. A few prize boars are kept for breeding purposes. I can't remember the name for immature male swine, but almost all of them are castrated very young. The sow we had was capable of inflicting grievous injury on anyone molesting her litter. I'm glad the vet did it. That sow could with her snout lift a pine log ten inches in diameter and fifteen feet long, that I hitched to pen wire bottom, like it was a toothpick. Fortunate it always fell back in place, and she did not get out.
Goddam boars are so dangerous I would not have one as part of our oversized 4H project.


#51001 01/02/2002 6:54 PM
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I doubt very much that you would care to eat boar meat

Obelix loves it.




#51002 01/02/2002 7:13 PM
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#51003 01/02/2002 7:53 PM
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I went through a number of sites about pigs, including a long detailed one about potbellied pigs as pets.
I found a number of terms I had forgotten. Birth of litter is called "farrowing". A young male that has been castrated is called a "barrow". A female is a "gilt" until her second pregnancy. The genus is Sus scrofa. The "scrofa" reminded me of "scrofula" a condition that afflicted lexicographer Sam Johnson, in which tuberculosis causes lymph glands in neck to enlarge greatly, and sometimes become open sores.

One more time: hogs are mature animals ready for market, and no boars are wanted.

I just remembered that scrofula was also called "King's Evil" in belief that the touch of the King could cure it.


#51004 01/02/2002 9:42 PM
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All seriousness aside, back in my callow yute when I was a commodities reporter, I took with great glee the term "hog run." It evoked to me greased pig contests in county fairs. Now, anybody know what a hog run really is? Submit your definitions here.


#51005 01/02/2002 11:04 PM
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Dear AS: I had visions of a "cattle drive" of pigs. I could find only one mention of "hog run" on Internet, and it appeared to relate to number of hogs delivered to packing plants in a state.

From the news story of February 7, 1995: "The Iowa daily "hog run" was 107,000 head yesterday,
below 113,000 the previous week, according to the Department of Agriculture. The run is estimated
at 100,000 head today, below 105,000 last week, the USDA said." So why would *less* hogs going
to market have any significance to us vegetarians?


#51006 01/02/2002 11:25 PM
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Dr. Bill;

Your definition of hog run sounds like what she would have covered during her commodities days.

An ASide:

If you want to get the attention of some high level executive and you can't make it through the front four, just say it's about the pork bellies he bought 6 months ago and did he want them delivered to his place of business or his home address?



#51008 01/03/2002 2:57 PM
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I like boar, on those rare occasions when I can get some.

I quite agree with you, Max. Why don't you come across here, where we can get it without too much effort? Mind you, the "Wild" boar that is sold in the shops here is all raised domestically - there is a "Wild Boar Farm" - complete with sows, piglets and hogs - about ten miles from where I live. Goodness knows how they can get away with that description under the Trades Descriptions Act!


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The real fun would be to have the equivalent number of live porkers delivered to him at the office.


#51010 01/03/2002 3:10 PM
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Dear Max and RC: Both of you must have extra effective dentition. My father (what's in a name) used to bring home game and "hang" it to let bacterial enzymes tenderize the meat, giving it a "gamey" flavor he enjoyed, but to me was equivalent of eating road kills. I do not apologize for my effete preference for the modern tender meats obtained from animals that did not have to work for a living.


#51011 01/03/2002 3:16 PM
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Parbly, not unlike catfish, (how's that for the logical double negative?) it's all in how you cook it.


#51012 01/03/2002 3:17 PM
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Spot on, Dr. Bill. But you cheated.


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