#49789
12/11/2001 7:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Brooch is one of those words which makes my mind itch. I cannot help but think “broooooch” as in hoot or cool rather than “broche” as in hotel or cold. Yet, “brooch” is the preferred spelling.
Per Webster’s, the word comes from ME broche, in turn from French, from Latin broccus. How did that double-o sneak in?
And while I’m on the subject: does anybody pronounce “breeches” as “breeeeeches?” Or, like everybody I’ve ever heard, like “britches?” In fact, do you ever see it spelled with the double-e, outside of old English novels?
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#49790
12/11/2001 8:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Sparteye: I used to wear "britches", but the place where a cartridge is inserted into a firearm is the breech, as in "breach", and in obstetrics a "breech presentation" means the buttocks are delivered before the head.
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#49791
12/11/2001 8:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
and as has been discussed elsewhere (most recently in the Advent thread,) English spelling has nothing to do with pronounciation! it is a bit worse in England..
pronounced Mam (as in spam) rather than Marm (as in palm)
• Interesting pronunciations include:
Althorp - All-trup
De la Warr - Della-ware
Beaulieu - Bew-ly
Le Fanu - Leff-new
Blenheim - Blen-im
St John - Sin-jun
Cholmondeley - Chum-li
Theobald - Tibbald
What caught my eye was "... than Marm (as in palm) "and not Marm, as in Harm.
to me britches is the correct word.. and breech is correct too-- not only in a breech delivery, but in a battle plan, when there is a break in the battle lines, and the opposing force "heads for the breech"
As for Brooch -- i (ignorent thing that i am) i think most often i would say it to rhyme with coach.. not as brooch (to rhyme with houtch, or "Coo, Coo, Coochie, goodby..") the same as broach-- to bring up a subject.. )
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#49792
12/11/2001 9:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>Yet, “brooch” is the preferred spelling.
for what? a brooch is something you wear at the neck. a subject is broached. they are homophones -- pronounced the same. OED has this note for brooch: Forms: broche, brooche, brouche, brutch, browche, bruche, brouch, broch, bruch, Sc. brotch(e, broach, brooch. [ME. broche; the same word as broach, the differentiation of spelling being only recent, and hardly yet established. Occasionally pronounced (brutch).]
maybe WS is to blame: Georges halfe cheeke in a brooch.
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#49793
12/11/2001 11:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Bartleby's gives two spellings: brooch and broach and two pronunciations: one rhymes with coach and the other rhymes with cwuch...or smooch! But the little man who pronounces the words on that site only performs the one that rhymes with coach. Stubborn little man!
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#49794
12/12/2001 12:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>But the little man who pronounces the words on that site only performs the one that rhymes with coach.
that's because in the AHD (the Bartleby source) broch is the first pronunciation and brüch the second -- there's an implied preference there. M-W is more specific; it says \broch also brüch\
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#49795
12/12/2001 6:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315 |
broccus (in the meaning of shoot, sprout ) is also the latin root for ...broccoli! NO chinese!
( I am not kidding, even if it can seem so)
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#49796
12/12/2001 8:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
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#49797
12/12/2001 2:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Yes, that's what I meant, Max & Emanuela. I think Marco Polo gets the credit. Not meaning to go off thread or anything [heaven-forbid] but what are some other things that Polo discovered in China and have since become popularized in the West under their Italian names?
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#49798
12/12/2001 3:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
other things that Polo discovered in China
Certainly pasta got itse'f brang over by MP but how many shapes were the Chinese resposible for and how many invented by the Italians?
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#49799
12/12/2001 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
I'd say, besides vermicelli, the next most obvious Chinese to Italian pasta shape would have to be ravioli or perhaps tortolini?
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#49800
12/13/2001 6:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I thought "breech birth" was spelt "breach birth"....
stales
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#49801
12/13/2001 6:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I thought "breech birth" was spelt "breach birth"....
stales
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#49802
12/13/2001 9:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Dear Stales,
I just checked Bartleby and the only spelling listed there was breech for both breech birth and breech delivery.
About pasta, when my daughter visited Japan, she said noodle houses were as predominant there as MacDonald's are here.
Broached regards,
DubDub
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#49803
12/13/2001 3:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Broached regards,
DubDub
You mean you've machined your regards with an elongated, tapered, serrated cutting tool? Or did you hang them from a spire? I hope you did not aspire to inspire such thoughts! Truth to tell, the first time I ever heard the word, broach, it was in reference to the machine tool.
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#49804
12/13/2001 3:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Geoff: Wordwind meant she had broached a cask of wine for all to enjoy.
Unhappily the word "broach" always reminds me of having a root canal opened up with one by dentist.
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#49805
12/13/2001 6:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Wordwind meant she had broached a cask of wine for all to enjoy.We've gone from brooch to broccoli to bacchanales in one thread? OK, WW, fill 'er up; let the revels begin! Besides, DR. Bill, the wine will dull that toothache! Hmmm... Which Greek philosopher was it who said something to the effect that no philosophy on earth could dull a toothache? Hence, the rise of the symposium to cure the aches philosophy couldn't. 
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#49806
12/13/2001 7:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>Which Greek philosopher was it who said something to the effect that no philosophy on earth could dull a toothache?
that would be the ol' Greek philosopher Will Shakespeare:
“For there was never yet philosopher that could endure the toothache patiently, however they have writ the style of gods, and made a push at chance and sufferance.” Much Ado about Nothing
-joe (philosophic help, 5¢) friday
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#49807
12/14/2001 2:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Don't forget creek and crick! And, you're right Geoff, if you attended a Greek symposium you would certainly wind up "feeling no pain"! 
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#49808
12/14/2001 4:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Don't forget creek and crick!
And, you're right Geoff, if you attended a Greek symposium you would certainly wind up "feeling no pain"
Well, after going up the creek on the attribution of the toothache line, I could use a good dose of pain medicine! 'Twasn't a full brain fart, just a bit of borborygmus.
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#49809
12/14/2001 6:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315 |
Perhaps someone can enjoy this address
http://www.italianpasta.net/pages/tipidi.htm
There is a long list of different kinds of pasta, and their delicious names - for example farfalle = butterflies, or orecchiette = small ears or lumache= snails.
A lot of course are meaningless, but if you are curious about some of them you can PM me.
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#49810
12/14/2001 12:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
...you can PM meMy Dear, your English is really picking up, isn't it? Farfalle is butterflies? Oh, thank you--that is lovely! Much more so than what it is called here: bow-tie pasta. To me, the word farfalle brings to mind "fireflies"--so I like knowing that I wasn't so very far off the actual meaning! Oh--perhaps I should explain a bit about why I think of fireflies. Where I live, a great many people pronounce "fire" as "far". Which reminds me of one of the few jokes I can remember--one which probably only works in the Southern U.S.: Why were the Three Wise Men smudged with soot? Because they came from afar.
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#49811
12/14/2001 4:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>Well, after going up the creek on the attribution of the toothache line, I could use a good dose of pain medicine!
through happenstance, yesterday's wwftd was dol,
a unit of pain measurement. it was just a coincidence... that's my story and I'm sticking to it... no, no, not the spanish inquistion!... aaarrrrrrgggggghh...
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#49812
12/14/2001 4:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
farfalle = [pasta shaped like] butterflies
Interesting. In yiddish, farfel is a kind of noodle.
[url]http://www.bartleby.com/61/72/F0037200.html[/url}:
farfel: (PRONUNCIATION: färfl) NOUN: Noodles shaped like small grains or pellets. ETYMOLOGY: Yiddish farfl, from Middle High German varveln.
Can anyone put together whatever connection may exist?
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#49813
12/14/2001 4:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
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#49814
12/14/2001 4:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
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#49815
12/14/2001 4:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
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#49816
12/14/2001 7:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Keiva, is that farfel or fourfel? Congratulations, I think that's a new duplication record! Looks like we're all going through this new long-posting glitch, even when the rest of the site is running okay.
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#49817
12/14/2001 8:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
and the bow tie pasta is used in Kasha varniska (sp?) where from is the varniska? its never made with any other shape pasta.
(a simple dish of cooked kasha (buckwheat groats) and bow tie pasta. the kasha is often cooked in broth rather than water, and its served as a side dish. i love buckwheat, so its one of my favorite ethnic foods)
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