#48228
11/21/2001 1:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I'm having one of those little turns - you know, the ones where you look at a word you've used all your life and become convinced that its spelling looks all wrong.
To make matters worse, when I looked it up, the dictionary says that both spelling variants are acceptable.
I'm referring to 'therefor' - or is it 'therefore'?
I'd appreciate any input as to whether one is more correct than the other, more US than the other or older than the other etc
stales
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#48229
11/21/2001 1:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,296 |
Hello, Stales...
Wherewithal I write therefore, heretofore I will keep my eyes peeled for any therefor's written in Virginia.
What are all those 'fore words? And therein's and other such 'roundabouts? Wherefore did we drop so many of 'em, they were such wind-across-the-bridge transitional syllables...?
WhitherWordfore...
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#48230
11/21/2001 3:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
The two are not the same word. E.g.:
1. A valid contract does not exist unless something of value is exchanged between the parties and valuable consideration is given therefor.
2. I think, therefore I am.
The one without the final 'e' is not often used except in legal and other technical language, and means "for that" or "for the thing aforementioned". With the final 'e' is the commonly used one.
Similar to this is 'wherefore' and 'wherefor'. The only usage of the latter that I know of is in the famous line of Juliet in the balcony scene, "Wherefor art thou Romeo?"
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#48231
11/21/2001 4:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I'm not familiar with the e-less therefor, stales. But my own pet peeve with this similar situation is aging/ageing. In fact, there was an interesting thread about it while you were away that might offer some interesting discussion and insight into this sort of dilemma: http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=38999Now, I'll have to look into this therefor/therefore thing! 
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#48232
11/21/2001 3:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Neither M-W on line nor Bartelby.com recognize wherefor*. They both agree with Boby on therefor(e).
Nor does Ænigma, who suggests [wherein].
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#48233
11/21/2001 4:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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This is from my AHD, 1992:
therefor...adv. For that: ordering goods and enclosing payment therefor.
therefore...adv For that reason or cause; consequently or hence.
I've never noticed therefor before, but am happy to add it to the Scrabble collection.
Best regards,
WherethroughWherefore?
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#48234
11/22/2001 12:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279 |
"Wherefor art thou Romeo?" Me thinks nay, sir!
But thn again would a ros by any othr nam smll as swt?
GallantTd
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#48235
11/22/2001 1:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Vindicated by a Teddy Beare!!
Beste regardes,
WordeWinde
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#48236
11/22/2001 3:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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wherefor is just a variant of wherefore (there were a good many others which have gone away heretofore). WS was a notoriously bad speller -- or at least inconsistent; to wit:
Against whose fury... The awlesse Lion could not wage
the fight. -WS, John I
Insulting Tiranny beginnes to Iutt Vpon the innocent and awelesse Throne. -WS, Richard III
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#48237
11/22/2001 4:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Qu. Aye me! I see the ruine of my House:
The Tyger now hath seiz'd the gentle Hinde,
Insulting Tiranny beginnes to Iutt
Vpon the innocent and awelesse Throne:
Welcome Destruction, Blood, and Massacre,
I see (as in a Map) the end of all.
Dut. Accursed, and vnquiet wrangling dayes,
How many of you haue mine eyes beheld?
My Husband lost his life, to get the Crowne,
And often vp and downe my sonnes were tost [1550]
For me to ioy, and weepe, their gaine and losse.
And being seated, and Domesticke broyles
Cleane ouer-blowne, themselues the Conquerors,
Make warre vpon themselues, Brother to Brother;
Blood to blood, selfe against selfe: O prepostorous
And franticke outrage, end thy damned spleene,
Or let me dye, to looke on earth no more.
Qu. Come, come my Boy, we will to Sanctuary.
Madam, farwell.
Farwell,
WrongWord
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#48238
11/22/2001 4:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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WS was a notoriously bad speller
Interesting...Eugene O'Neill, our second US Nobel laureate, was, self-admittedly, a horrible speller! His wife Carlotta would edit and type-up all his hand-written pages for him (he preferred to work in longhand... using plenty of pre-sharpened pencils). But speling was knot his cup of tee! It's hard for me to imagine being such a proficient writer and not being able to spell well. But there's Will and Gene, so there you have it.
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#48239
11/22/2001 11:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Speaking of US Nobel laureates, our 8th and 9th, 1980: Czeslaw Milosz Poland-United States and 1981: Elias Canetti Bulgaria-United States, I've never read. Has anyone here read either of these, and, if so, could you recommend something of theirs?
This summer I plan on concentrating on reading Nobel prize winners for literature...recommendations I'll certainly welcome, not just American.
Best regards,
Wherefore
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#48240
11/23/2001 12:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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This link lists all the winners of the Nobel prize for literature. Each name is clickable and leads to info. about the laureate. http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/Bingley
Bingley
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#48241
11/23/2001 2:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thank you for the link, Bingley. It's too bad that the authors' nations are not shown in the list of winners. But that in itself can be a conundrum requiring a bit of tracing. Czeslaw Milosz, who, on some list of mine, is a Polish-American winner, was originally from Poland although he moved to America when he was 49. Here's one of his poems from the link you provided:
So Little
I said so little.
Days were short.
Short days.
Short nights.
Short years.
I said so little.
I couldn't keep up.
My heart grew weary
From joy,
Despair,
Ardor,
Hope.
The jaws of Leviathan
Were closing upon me.
Naked, I lay on the shores
Of desert islands.
The white whale of the world
Hauled me down to its pit.
And now I don't know
What in all that was real.
...can't say I find much in this one to admire. Maybe the poetry is in a Polish version, if he wrote it in Polish...
WW
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