#47880
11/16/2001 7:14 AM
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from Scientific American of David Crystal's latest book, "Language and the Internet" can be found at http://www.sciam.com/2001/1201issue/1201reviews1.html. Apparently the book was one of the few items the reviewer took with her on 11 Sept. when she left her apartment near the WTC. Bingley
Bingley
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#47881
11/16/2001 12:08 PM
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Cool, Bingley, thank you!  It was interesting, seeing that chart with abbreviations; some have been here, and some not. (But I didn't like that they had bg, for big grin: it should be EG, for "enormous grin". tsuwm has said so, and so therefore, it IS that way.) I do have a question, based on this line the writer used: cc, for example, has a new gloss as "complimentary copy," now that carbon copies are a distant memory.When and how did the word gloss come to be used in this sense, please?
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#47882
11/16/2001 12:57 PM
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cc, for example, has a new gloss as "complimentary copy," now that carbon copies are a distant memory.
Jackie asks : When and how did the word gloss come to be used in this sense, please?
OED says : "a similar explanation of a word in a glossary or dictionary. Also, (more widely) a comment, an explanation, an interpretation, a paraphrase. A collection of such words, a glossary, an interlinear translation or series of annotations. A disingenuous explanation, comment on or explain a word, read a different sense into" and it goes on and on.
That any help?
I have, and sometimes use, a typewriter which is handy when power fails! Not too long ago had to visit three stationery stores before finding one that still *stocks carbon paper!
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#47883
11/16/2001 2:03 PM
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thanks for that, Bingley. I had no idea Crystal had written such a book. I will buy it posthaste.
Meanwhile, Jackie, EG means something somewhat different [eg]
don't believe everything tsuwm tells you; remember, he did time in the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices
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#47884
11/16/2001 7:11 PM
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>EG, for "enormous grin". tsuwm has said so
I don't recall saying any such. for the record, here is what I believe:
e.g. = exempli gratia
<eg> = evil grin
<EG> or <beg> = big evil grin
hth.
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#47885
11/16/2001 8:06 PM
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That list of initialisms or whatever they were called in the review are a curse and an abomination. They aren't worth remembering, and there is no easy way to look them up. So tmwfit, tr abofsh,dya? I htrsf.
Abrevions made sense in Western Union days, when you paid by the letter. But now if is so easy to type with keyboard and easy correction, it seems only common courtesy to spell things out.If ydli, kma.
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#47886
11/16/2001 8:50 PM
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yes, yes, bill, you're right-- but it is a fact we can think faster than we can talk, and talk faster tham most of us can type..
on a Bulliten Board, like this, short hand does seem out of place.. but in a chat room (and Sparteye has hosted a few chats over on Yahoo..) things are fast and furious.. and then short hand helps..
problem is, once you learn the short hand, it tends to creap in.. to all of your internet communications.. just like verbal short hand creaps in.. so we end up with "gunna" and "Wacha" (hey marty, wacha doing tonight? --i dunno, wacha doing?) creaping into spoken language.. and speakers like me, end up saying jurrin.. not during. the inital sound is slurred, and the final sound is dropped.. and thing like 'fagetabootit" or "jeet?" (did you eat?) become almost a joke.. but every one get them.. and way to many say them.
and since typing is even a slower way to communicate.. Ugot2 get with the program it is they way of the future. might as well stand on the shore and try to stop the tide from coming in!
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#47887
11/16/2001 8:51 PM
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#47888
11/16/2001 9:44 PM
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>So tmwfit, tr abofsh,dya? I htrsf....kma.
dear bill, I tried to find those in the CLOKA, but they don't seem to be there -- except for that last one.
<vbeg>
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#47889
11/16/2001 10:01 PM
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" and then short hand helps.." The writer, but not the reader. So fthfn writer. He can kma, I just won't bother to read his crap.
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#47890
11/17/2001 7:54 PM
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but on BB's and in chat rooms, the idea is dialog.. everyone is both reader and writer... when you wear both hats, short hand works for both..
but in the beginning.. it is a "secret code" and it requires newbies to work at learning the language of the medium.
didn't we discuss this some months ago, relating to an article about prescriptive and descriptive dictionaries?
i know several versions of english-- one i worked hard at-- with no spell check or grammar check on my old computer.. while i was in college.. an other english i speak- and while i pride myself on almost never using um, er, you know, like.. i also have words i use for effect.. I frequently use ain't in spoken language.. but i never use it in written language, not even here.. on the internet, where there are different rules..
internet language dislikes ALL CAPS! and even cap's on proper nouns.. I don't correct people who call me of Troy-- but i am of troy.. and tsuwm.. is just that, not Tsuwm..
we use very few of the C U! or kma! or other shorthand, and when we do, it almost alway has some sort of background..
SWMBO- for example..
too much short hand make the board hard for new comers. this board has some rather exceptional members, and exceptional rules.. we don't have to change them. but if we are interested in language, we should know what going on with english.. here, there, and cyberwhere!
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#47891
11/17/2001 8:07 PM
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ofTroy: Interesting comment of yours about the capital letters issue. I try to be careful here about tsuwm, ofTroy (although I don't put the space in), and wwh, but old habits are hard to break, and I do make a point of capitalizing when I think it's required by my background. I didn't realize, till reading your post, that capital letters were generally outré. I don't think I can make the change unless I learn that capital letters are maddening to readers here.
Best regards,
DubDub
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#47892
11/17/2001 8:14 PM
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The New Yorker used to have (and may still have) a page called "In love with sound of own voice". I think the shorthand writers are arrogant to expect readers to study their crap.
It is just too damned easy to write clear text now there is no goddamned excuse for shorthand. If I can learn to type touch, anybody can.
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#47893
11/17/2001 8:43 PM
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re: If I can learn to type touch, anybody can.
dr bill, one of the wonders, and joys of the internet-- is accessability! yes, money is a factor.. but where else can i have ongoing conversations with kiwi's, and ozzies, and canadains, and even you! what would it have take? how many degrees of seperation between a middle class, middle aged, mid level technical worker in NY, and a retired, elderly somewhat housebound doctor in CA?
the biggest barrier that the internet has broken has been for the any one who is handicapped.. the internet is a handicapped free zone.
i am glad you can touch type, and gladder still i can.. but i work every day with amputees, blind, and other physically impared users.. and many times, i am ignorant of their handicap until i come to their desk..
good old fashioned fast touch typing requires 2 good hands.
now days, it is so much easier to get to know people, their likes their dislikes, their taste in reading..their education and social level-- with out every meeting them.. and when i do meet them.. i find my preconcieved notions about race, or physical appearence are often just that[my preconcieved notions! i associate their quickness of mind with a quickness of body, and boy oh boy have i been wrong! I love getting to know people this way.. i hate that i have preconcieved notions.. and i hate it even more that i let my notions get in the way of my learning about people. i hate that i sometimes focus on some minor handicap, and miss the person. (and i don't think i am alone in this failing.. )
Not everyone can learn to touch type.
the internet is open to all comers.. even the ones minus fingers and toes, or the muscles used to operate them. and if once in a while short hand creeps in.. so be it. i can learn to accommadate myself!
now there is no goddamned excuse for shorthand? sorry but i can't agree!
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#47894
11/17/2001 8:54 PM
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The percentage of "digitally challenged" people in some sites I have visited seems to be surprisingly high. AWADtalk included. I still say majority of shorthand users are unpleasant egotists.
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#47895
11/17/2001 10:05 PM
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I didn't realize, till reading your post, that capital letters were generally outré. I don't think I can make the change unless I learn that capital letters are maddening to readers here.
walla-walla - just to clear up a possible misconception, what ot refers to here is the practice, common to newbies, of using the Caps Lock key AND RENDERING THEIR POST IN ALL CAPS, WHICH IS CONSIDERED (BY THOSE SAME FOLKS WHO LIKE TO USE TLAs) TO BE SHOUTING!
I guess the convention of using caps for shorthand words (for which there seems to be no goddamned excuse ;) arose from a perceived need to easily distinguish those TLAs from real words. of course, some of them deserve to be hastened along the road to reality; e.g., yart and (some would claim) ayleur.
[aside to musick - the preferred expansion of YART is 'yet another rehashed topic', a fine yet valid distinction]
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#47896
11/17/2001 10:21 PM
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In Western Union Telegrams, Only capital letters were used. Same in Amateur Radio. Morse Code simply gave no choice, it would have made learning code too difficult. I suspect some early internet users were influenced by that.
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#47897
11/17/2001 11:19 PM
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tsuwm - I stand corrected... realizing that if a whole thread were rehashed what sort odds would be *broken (or would that be *attained). ... and agree completely that when I read caps my internal voice GETS LOUDER. However, I'm missing the words behind TLA... so, in the interest of saving ME time  , I request that the next user spill it out... ROTF
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#47898
11/17/2001 11:32 PM
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TooLazyAcronyms? heh, heh, Aenigma said tooled
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#47899
11/17/2001 11:35 PM
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Thanks, tsuwm, for clarifying the issue to old Walla Walla who sometimes wallow wallows through muddy cyber waters.
Boola Boola,
WW
PS: of Troy, you're correct about all kinds of people meeting on the Internet. I, in fact, am the Queen of Sheba. There! I've gone and done it! Blown my anonymity!
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#47900
11/17/2001 11:45 PM
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TLA = too lazy analorifice
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#47901
11/17/2001 11:46 PM
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TLA Three Letter Abbreviation
TLA Three Letter Acronym
TLA Talk, Listen, Act (United Parcel Service training)
TLA Telemetry Link Adapter
TLA Telephone Line Adapter
TLA Temporary Lodging Allowance
TLA Temporary Lodging Assistance
TLA Term Loan A
TLA Terminal Low Altitude
TLA Terminate and Leave Activated
TLA Territorial Local Authorities (New Zealand)
TLA Texas Library Association
TLA Thin Layer Activation
TLA Tie Line Class A (24 hours/day service)
TLA Time Line Analysis
TLA Top Level Aggregate
TLA Top Level Alarm
TLA Total Living Allowance
TLA Training Level Assignment
TLA Transmit Level Adjustment
TLA Transportation Lawyers Association
TLA Travel & Living Allowance
TLA Trial Lawyers Association
TLA True Love Always
TLA Two Letter Acronym (less common)
Which would you like it to be?
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#47902
11/18/2001 12:31 AM
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None of the above. Thank you, consuelo.
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#47903
11/18/2001 6:32 AM
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Well, just for the record it's Three Letter Acronym. TLAs are typically from computing rather than the Internet itself. I suppose that since a fair number of web users are also computer geeks there is a cross over. I don't believe that the Internet (aka the web, anyway) is "responsible" for the new rash of a lack of appropriate capitalisation. That's just laziness, bad education and copying what others do. The web has really become a case of descent to the level of the lowest common denominator, since the only restriction (in most places) on access to it is money, and that barrier to entry is virtually non-existent in many countries. Therefore, some high school dropout from the barrio in East LA is just as likely to have access to the net as a graduate of UCLA or Harvard or the Dunny on the Wold Community College. Of course, according to Bill I should have spelled out "Los Angeles" rather than typing "LA" and "University of California, Los Angeles" rather than "UCLA"! I know he would never use such offensive contractions ...  We also have a large number of people who are not native English speakers on the net and their general ignorance of the finer points of English, while even more understandable, will also be contributing significantly to the descent of English, at least as used on the net, to something else entirely. It's just the way things are. You can only avoid it by not using the net. Up to you, really. Acronyms are inevitable. Antediluvian carping on about their existence is a bit Cnut-ish, these days. Now's there's a three-way pun for you ... Well, that's my .8p worth.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#47904
11/18/2001 7:39 AM
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#47905
11/18/2001 2:42 PM
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Dear MaxQ: My bio shows that "wwh" stands for William W. Hunt. The middle "W" stands for "Woodbridge". I used to get teased about it. I have seen documentation that the Woodbridge family had eight successive generations of Congregational ministers, all of whom would disapprove of me. I think it a bit unkind to mock my initials.
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#47906
11/18/2001 3:26 PM
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wwh: I think the name Woodbridge possesses much dignity. The word bridge itself connates dignity.
Symbolic potential and practical function aside, from reading through recents posts about the Romans on various threads, I came across the information that the Roman pontiff derived from those persons of highly respected engineering skills who were able to design and implement the building of bridges (see: pont).
I have a whimsical, probably completely unfounded belief that we carry genetic memory--and my whimsical belief whispers atavistic words of wonder about anything related to bridges...save dental and other tangential variations.
Also wood is about the best thing in the whole world to a tree lover! I was probably a termite in my former life.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that Woodbridge is a rich name, full of wonder and resonance, she said, while clip-clopping over its span
WW
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#47907
11/18/2001 4:57 PM
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Dear WW: thank you for your kind words. I said in another post that I have a lot to be modest about, and I was quite serious. Perhaps I get too serious about some things, and attack with undue force. I have so often been baffled by acronyms that I cannot help resenting their being used without meaning being given in beginning of text. I still believe they are useful only to the perpetrator, not to the reader.
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#47908
11/18/2001 5:22 PM
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#47909
11/18/2001 5:47 PM
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Dear MaxQ: I knew very well you did not intend to hurt my feelings. But in identifying myself as wwh, I was using minimum letters sufficient to establish identity, yet make reply to me easy. I was only pretending that you were slyly thinking of me as "Willy Wanking Horror" or something of the sort.
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#47910
11/18/2001 6:00 PM
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#47911
11/18/2001 6:15 PM
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Dear MaxQ" while crossing two threads in my alleged mind "metacognition" and "wanking" I was reminded of uncommon term "manustrupration". When I tried to look up etymology, I could find little about the second half of the word, except "pollution". I wonder why that term was chosen.
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#47912
11/18/2001 8:03 PM
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I had not given a picasecond's consideration to the question of what the second w stood for.You will note that I forebore mentioning that wwh is a TLA. Truly lecherous acronym. I really did. It was nearly irresistable - but not quite. I thought about it, I rolled it around in my mental palm, I tasted the opportunity, I strummed it over and considered the implications of hammering the point home. I sucked on the sav, I felt my ears twitching, I adjusted my mental gears, I had tears in my eyes at my own anticipated innate and dignified manliness. And I eventually chose to pass over what was, any honest commentator would have to agree, the opportunity of a lifetime. But you didn't.  Pig Islanders strike again! On yer, Kiwi!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#47913
11/18/2001 8:29 PM
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#47914
11/18/2001 11:27 PM
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Why thank you, it's a gift. Yes--that's why they call it the present.
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#47915
11/19/2001 12:08 AM
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Dr. Bill, I would bet my life that my sweet Max would never deliberately try to cause anyone to feel bad. So, if you see something from him in the future that might be taken either way, you can feel confident in taking it the good way. This, I know. No need in worrying yourself, where he is concerned.
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#47916
11/19/2001 6:11 PM
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Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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In reply to:
No need in worrying yourself, where he is concerned.
The rest of us, however, are another story. <eg> [EG]
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#47917
11/19/2001 7:16 PM
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Dear Sparteye: Exempli gratia?
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#47918
11/20/2001 2:25 AM
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What's the matter, Sparteye? a little laches? Evil Grin.
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#47919
11/20/2001 10:30 PM
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... another story.I count at least three... not counting my own, since I don't *count.
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