|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
>>By the way, did you hear the one about the phone being answered with: "Hello! This is the fridge; the answering machine is on holidays."
No, I haven't heard that one.
But if the answering machine picks up, the caller can say,
"Is your refrigerator running? You'd better go catch it".
|
|
|
#4778
08/16/2000 10:03 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
>another example is your typhoon, which doesn't mean big wind. the "tai" is the same tai as in sen"dai" and "tai"wan<
William, you're right and I'm wrong - teach me to post without checking my facts!
I just looked up typhoon in my English-Chinese dictionary and interestingly enough it shows the character as in 'tai'-wan, BUT with the addition of a wind radical. So the one in day-to-day use is just a simplification.
Neither of my Chinese-English dictionaries shows this character, but my Japanese one (Nelson's) does. Curiouser and curiouser.
..I used to have a marvellous thing called just 'Karlgren', which showed the derivation (including three to six stages of character development over the years) and classical Chinese pronunciations of characters, along with all their ancient meanings. It was just a heap of photocopies - not sure if the original was ever published - I'll try to dig through my chests and see if it has stuck with me through my travels.
(BTW yes, I knew 'if if' was a joke.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
funny thing is, typhoon is a big wind! so that IS what it means in a way, but i can't find out why! japanese does tend to simplify chinese characters doesn't it, as well as take combinations as they are. i don't know any chinese at all (and not that much japanese!) so these things are tough!
ne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Re karlgren
I punched Karlgren Chinese into Google and came up with a bunch of web sites.
Example
www.cohums.ohio-state.edu/deall/chan.9/articles/period-a.htm
His first name was Bernhard.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
OK, y'all Nipponophones (I made that up, someone pls correct me): the Japanese Pokemon (movie, cartoon, trading cards) is a big deal among kids in the US. I was told the name comes from Pocket Man, meaning small person. Anything to do with Walk Man? And is this story true?
And by the way, how did we come up with the term animé to mean Japanese animation?
And BTW2, johnjohn, for me 'Walkman' has become generic. I wouldn't know what else to call it..... *wandering off, wondering what the plural of Walkman is*.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I was told that it is Jamaican in origin, and was descriptive of an ambler, also known as a (slow)poke mon.
All seriousness aside (I LOVE that phrase!) pokemon is derived from Pocket Monster.
Walkman is singular only. After all, you can only use one at a time.
Cf. mongoose:
I have two mongeese.
No, I have two mongooses.
Dammit.
I have a mongoose. And, oh yes, and I have another one.
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
extraordinarily edifying, Mr Ted 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>And by the way, how did we come up with the term animé to mean Japanese animation?
a very good question, it being French for animation. and while we're engaging in BTWs, one of the reasons that this particular art form is so popular with young American males supposedly is the absence of political correctness -- which brings us full circle back to Walkman....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
"And by the way, how did we come up with the term animé to mean Japanese animation?" What is this I see before me? A question that is not only on track with the thread but that I can answer? Quick, I'll jump in before william gets on-line... The Japanese adopted the word animation from English. Transliterated into Japanese writing and then retransliterated (?!?) back into English, it would spell a-ni-me-sho-n. But that's all too much of a mouthful so the Japanese abbreviated it to a-ni-me. And when it then came back into English, in order to represent the 'me' as a full separate syllable rather than an add-on consonant plus silent e, it picked up an accent. See what I mean about English-Japanese-English? Cool, isn't it? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
>the Japanese abbreviated it <
Something they do a lot. Compare Pokemon earlier. This is probably now the most famous example, although the one that always used to get quoted when I was learning Japanese was wa-pu-ro.
|
|
|
#4787
08/17/2000 10:38 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167 |
<Walkman>
Well if it's going to be generic it's just got be "Walkperson".............
(or should that be in the PC thread.....)
(or should it be "TransportPerson" so as not to offend against people unable to walk.........)
|
|
|
#4788
08/17/2000 10:43 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167 |
<I have a mongoose. And, oh yes, and I have another one.>
"My mother thinks I'm mad because I like pancakes"
- "There's nothing mad about that, I like pancakes too"
"Really? Do you want to come up and see my collection??"
[JJ goes off chuckling softly....."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
thanks bridget!
yes, there are so many abbreviated words in japanese. wapuro (word processor), pasocom (personal computer), no-to (notebook computer), ruku (rucksack), iemon (yellow monkey - pop group)...
abbreviation is an art form. it even depends on the area. in sendai mcdonalds is "maku" but in other parts of japan it's "makudo" or something.
i remember being amazed that sydneysiders called orange juice "o.j.", and potato cakes "scallops". how do you tell the difference between real scallops and potato cakes?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
karaoke is another abbreviation, but i think this is famous.
it apparently means "empty orchestra". the kara is the same as "kara"te -"empty" hand.
oke is from o-kesutora.
this one has always sounded far fetched to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Bridget, thank you for that! I too enjoy the foibles of back-and-forth translation (try altavista's babelfish). What follows is slightly off-topic, since it involves Hungarian and not Japanese, but for those who have not yet seen the Budapest interview with Madonna (while she was filming "Evita") as extrapolated by Gary Trudeau in Time magazine, I offer this link (not for the weak of heart): http:// http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1996/dom/960520/essay.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
just wanted to share some interesting verbs from japanese with you.
often a verb is made with a "ru" ending, meaning a kanji with a "ru" sound tacked on the end. the "ru" is the part that changes with tense. in this way, verbs are quite distinctive sounds (unlike english) and so can be created easily.
a mainstream one using a foreign word is "saboru". the "sabo" comes from sabotage, and the verb means to wag school or to bludge at work.
some newer ones not in dictionaries are "tabaru" to smoke, "copiru" to make a photocopy, and "memoru" to take a memo.
to me, that is linguistic wizardry.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>linguistic wizardry
but this smacks of the wlatsome verbing that goes on in English (to wit, productize) where perfectly serviceable words already exist (i.e., produce).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
>>this smacks of the wlatsome verbing that goes on in English
ha ha ha!
you know i don't object to "verbing" in english, as long as it's not done with self importance.
there are certainly some people who object to this in japanese too. it's hardly "pure" japanese.
i guess the really useless inventions will die, and the wizardric ones will survive
(and live to become "pure" in a future time when conservationists object to their being changed to vulgarities)!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
What in the world are 'wag' and 'bludge'. please?
And, wlatsome?
|
|
|
#4796
08/30/2000 10:48 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
< wag school or to bludge at work>
wag = to absent yourself from school unofficially
bludge = to loaf, to impose on someone, orig. to act as a harlot's bully [Sidney Baker, The drum: Australian character and slang]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
So bludge is what the more violent pimps or ponces do?
Given all the words the spellcheck doesn't know, how come it knows a word like Ponchartrain?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>wag = to absent yourself from school unofficially
so if you don't have an aegrotat or an exeant, you wag it?
wlatsome = an old word for loathsome
Murder is ... wlatsom and abhominable to God. - Chaucer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
From Dickens's "Dombey and Son", chapter 22:
'My misfortunes all began in wagging, Sir; but what could I do, exceptin' wag?'
'Excepting what?' said Mr Carker.
'Wag, Sir. Wagging from school.'
'Do you mean pretending to go there, and not going?' said Mr Carker.
'Yes, Sir, that's wagging, Sir.'
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
#4800
09/01/2000 10:20 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
Relevant to absolutely nothing before in this thread, but maybe someone here can help me. Where did Sylvester Stallone get the name Rambo for his character from? Is it related to the Japanese word rambo, or just a bizarre coincidence?
I'd been in Japan for over a year before I heard the phrase 'rambo unten', which I still think is most graphically - hence best - translated as 'rambo driving'!
|
|
|
#4801
09/01/2000 11:19 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
<so if you don't have an aegrotat or an exeant [sic. exeat], you wag it?>
thanks, tsuwm, and Bingley, Dickens and Dombey [sounds like a legal firm] for further elucidation on the art of 'wagging'.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>exeant [sic, exeat]
where was me spellchecker on that one? <GRIN>
actuallyŽ, the OED has both spellings and our own spellchecker accepts only exeant!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
>>Where did Sylvester Stallone get the name Rambo for his character from?
Well, folks, I get the stupidity award for the day (month?).
Went to about six websites, and guess where I was sent for the answer??
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Sep 14 00:03:05 EDT 1997
Subject: A.Word.A.Day--rambo
X-Bonus: The greatest healing therapy is friendship and love. -Hubert Humphrey
Ram.bo n. [From John Rambo, the hero of David Morrell's novel First Blood
( 1972) and a subsequent movie] An extremely aggressive person who feels
no qualms about defying rules, regulations, or the law in order to right
a perceived wrong.
Letters., Time, 05-26-1997, pp 12+.
"Ecuadorians expect to see Fujimori acting like a democratic
President, not the Rambo of Peru."
This week's theme: eponyms derived from works based on fiction.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
Jackie, you did better than I did searching the web - maybe because I looked generally and ended up with the film rather than the word.
Anyway, thanks for your research. I have now searched on Morrell and Rambo to come up with the following:
"The name Rambo came about when Morrell's wife brought in some apples for the author, at the time he was struggling to find a name for his character... the apples were a rare variety named "Rambo"! This seemed to fit perfectly and a modern day movie legend was born."
The Japanese / Chinese characters translate as 'chaos' and 'violence'. To think that Morrell stumbled on such an apposite name merely through an apple!
What is it about apples anyway? While we're at it I should mention that the Beatles called their recording company Apple because it is Ringo in Japanese. Add in Biblical references and the apple is clearly one significant fruit!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
the word "rambou" came up, by the way, in class yesterday. a student asked me if the buttons on american vending machines are big because americans hit them in a "rambou" way.
didn't really know how to answer that one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200 |
just heard this on bbc world news:
"...a three metre high tidal wave rolled down the river.."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
. Add in Biblical references and the apple is clearly one significant fruit!
Which raises an almost totally unrelated question - why do most Christians assume that the fruit was an apple? As I read it, the Genesis account doesn't appear to specify what type of fruit was involved. I did read somewhere that some Islamic traditions have the fruit being a banana, though I am unable to comment on the veracity of that statement.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167
member
|
|
member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 167 |
<but this smacks of the wlatsome verbing that goes on in English (to wit, productize) where perfectly serviceable words already exist (i.e., produce).>
I have to say that working in a service sector industry the word "productification" has a different sense from "production"; the former being used roughly in the sense of to convert what was a human and individually based service into an off-the-shelf one-size-fits-all product. I don't know what the cognate verb is, its never used, but it would logically be "productify", though "productize" sounds somehow more appropriate .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
"...a three metre high tidal wave rolled down the river.."
Now this I baulk at! How can a wave rolling down a river be tidal? Shame on the BBC!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Perhaps the river flowed South to North?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Tidal Waves in rivers: I assume they were talking about something like the Severn Bore which is popularly known as a tidal wave. (not sure about the "down" part, unless it was on its way back to the sea, having hit a barrier of some kind)According to the Environment Agency (the government department with responsibility for water and waterways): "A tidal wave, or bore, occurs in the lower reaches of a few rivers during high tides. For a bore to form, a considerable rise in tide is needed in a converging channel with a rising bed, forming a funnel shape. These conditions occur in the lower reaches of the River Severn, forming the Severn Bore.The Severn Estuary experiences the second highest tide anywhere in the world, with a range which can be in excess of 14.5 metres. Under the most favourable conditions, the Severn Bore may reach two metres in height. Opposing winds or high freshwater levels can considerably reduce the height and delay the time of arrival, whereas a following wind can increase the height and advance the time. The average speed of the bore is approximately 16 kilometres per hour." Here is a picture: http://members.tripod.com/~BoreRidersClub/NEW100.jpgAn excellent site explaining the phoenomenon: says: "People often erroneously assume that a bore is caused by the tide itself. A bore occurs as part of the tide - it is in fact (as will be outlined below) the wave(s) at the head of the incoming tide when it has entered an estuary - and hence cannot be caused by the tide. Another fatal error is to describe the bore as a 'tidal wave'. 'Tidal wave' refers to any surge of the sea occurring through factors independent and mutually exclusive of the tide (especially meteorological disturbances or earthquake). Hence a 'tidal wave' (tsunami or seiches) is not a tide and therefore cannot be associated with a bore." http://members.tripod.com/~BoreRidersClub/Theory.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Jo--
As with Tsuwm, I am floored, stunned, and in awe: how do
you find these things??
Grateful, too! This was fascinating!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1 |
Haier HLP21N Pulsator 1-Cubic-Foot Portable Washer is best product known to me so far..It is a portable washer with 1-cubic-foot stainless-steel tub for loads up to 6 pounds.. This washer is perfect for a small apartment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
this was a fun thread to see again; now geddoutta here with your commercializationification!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 963
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 963 |
A delightful thread. Sadly, nothing of this ilk is happening these days.
|
|
|
|
|
