#47034
11/06/2001 7:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,661 |
...or is that whilst you...  It has come to my attention that "work" seems to be the only "-ork" word (similar to "word") that is pronounced "werk" (here in the vast Midwest US), when "cork, dork, fork, Mork, pork" retain the "or" sound. Why - when - what made this happen? And, "ward" sounds like "word"'s spelling and we don't even have a word popular spelled "werd" or "werk" (not that we need them, but it would explain a few things) ...and there's another one "wood = would" why bother confusing...? ...just decide on one or the other. 
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#47035
11/08/2001 4:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
worry and worthy follow that odd pattern. Why? Do they have a common origin? Worry, worthy, work, word... I worry that I am not worthy to work on this word group!
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#47036
11/09/2001 3:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Worry not whether you are worthy whilst you wile away the day ... we all must weather the odd spellings of English, whether 'tis our wont, or not! 
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#47037
11/09/2001 6:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Buditsnoddabowt odd spellings, 'tsabowt odd pronunsee a shuns... and sertinlee noddabowt "Inglish" .
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#47038
11/09/2001 8:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Yeah, M erk from Erk might've ruined Robin Williams career! But the original question brings to mind a similar situation I've always pondered pertaining to Newark. Here, in New Jersey, we pronounce it New-work (or New-erk), but in other places (i.e. Delaware) it's pronounced New-ark. And these two pronunciations seem to vary arbitrarily from region to region. Why so? I think we missed this on the Houston Street/Houston thread when we discussed the different pronunciations of certain place names (Arkansas, etc). Or did we?
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#47039
11/09/2001 9:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Re: And, "ward" sounds like "word"'s spelling
and then there is always clark/clerk
or am i thinking of darby/derby?
i think the idea of phonics is nice.. too bad english has so many exceptions to make it almost not worth the bother to learn.
but i could be wrong, in which case, i do not pass go, i do not collect $200, i go directly to gaol/jail!
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#47040
11/11/2001 4:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
The rounded consonants W, WH, and QU caused A to become an O sound sometime in Middle English:
mat, bat, sat - but what, Watt, squat
man, bad, rasp - but wan, squad, wasp
This effect is sometimes disguised by other sound changes, e.g. it did not happen before the velar K, G sounds:
rack, tack, lag - but also whack, wax, wag
And it always happened before L, regardless of the preceding:
ball, tall, malt - and also wall, squall
While wa > wo was going on, the original wo- was shifting to wu-:
woman, wolf, would, worm, word, worth
Actually the second one isn't that simple because in Old English this sometimes came from other sounds, not original wo-: wifmann, wulf.
The resultant -ur- of wurk, wurd was originally a different sound from the -er- of herd and the -ir- of bird, but all three have since collapsed together into this sound peculiar to English.
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#47041
11/11/2001 5:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Wonderful stuff, thanks for the info...
You mentioned Middle English... what is this time frame?
I'm curious if that collapse is something that happened in the US only and if the other side of the pond retained any differentiation.
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#47042
11/12/2001 1:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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musick, I loved seeing you say, "why bother confusing...? ...just decide on one or the other". Would that decision be one of them thar "steenkin' rules"? 
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#47043
11/12/2001 4:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Middle English is the English spoken from when written English emerged from the shadow of the Norman Conquest to when the Great Vowel Shift was more or less complete. Very roughly mid twelfth century to mid fifteenth century.
Bingley
Bingley
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#47044
12/07/2001 9:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,096 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,096 Likes: 2 |
Hough oughten oughsetting it is tough nough tough much.
Hough as in bough
oughten as in cough
oughtsetting as in hiccough (regionalism? I pronounce it "hiccup")
tough as in through
nough as in though or although
and that doesn't even include
*ough as in rough
You want consistent rules? In English? Silly person! "Consistent rules in English pronunciation" is an oxymoron.
In the opposite direction it goes "Though the tough cough and hiccough run him through." Might make for an interesting cryptogram, that.
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#47045
12/07/2001 10:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
You want consistent rules? In English? Silly person!...[sigh] Ok, I concede the silly part... and even admit to a devil's advocate approach (a little "stir up the moat"...if you will), but at least K ieva "enjoyed seeing me say *it" . Note the two *different uses of a the 'tongue'But seriously, folks (and peoples)... I would call upon all lexicographers to adopt a "phonetics" approach to new entries and start 'fixing' old ones so teachers can appear consistent and students can concentrate a little more on meaning... instead of graphical representations...  So what would you believe my intentions are "But seriously..." or ? Thadawda str things upa bit.
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