#46487
11/01/2001 4:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I've been back to Bibliomania, and found an article by Alex Preston on John Clare, of whom I don't recall ever hearing.
Here is a paragraph from the article, and my questions are 1.) who was Cap't. Swing, and 2.) what is a "rick burning"?:
Clare's poetry gives voice to a 'tormented customary consciousness': in his poetry we see the disintegration of a moral economy - an economy which was still held together by a delicate social fabric based and secured by custom, rather than by the vagaries of money and profit: though this 'moral' economy could be as brutal and unequal as anything that came after it. What Clare laments is the replacement of this order by 'new instrumental and exploitative stance, not only towards labour... but also towards the natural world'. This is important because it shows that the experience of people and nature are not fragmented, but intertwined. This intertwining of the experience of people and nature is starkly represented in an image like that of the hanging moles in 'Remembrances' (the image probably alludes to the labourers hung during the Captain Swing riots and rick burnings that exploded across Southern England during 1830).
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#46488
11/01/2001 5:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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I dunno the answer to most of your question... but as to ricks.. doesn't hay get stored for animal fodder (or transported? or something?) in Ricks? aren't there hay ricks?
and in the 1830--England-- that was the time of the change in the enclosure laws? when all the old tenants got thrown off their little farms, so landlords could raise sheep, to have wool for the new powered mills, where the first power looms were hard at work creating miles of cloth?..and the luddites (or was it the jethro tulls?) came through the countryside burning things down? (the hay ricks that the sheep feed from?)
(proving a little knowledge is a dangerous thing..)
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#46489
11/01/2001 5:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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>the hay ricks that the sheep feed from?)
Actually, I believ e it was young goats. After all, the older of USns know that "t' ricks are for kids."
Let's see how many people know what I'm talking about.
TEd
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#46490
11/01/2001 6:09 PM
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Dear Jackie: Here is a URL to the poems, and a discussion of the whole matter. http://www.oneworld.org/tlio/history/clare.html It is about the enclosures in the seventeen hundreds, and the peasants' revolt. Captain Swing was apparently nom de guerre of one of the peasants. Hay ricks are hay simply piled as high as possible in the field, with little protection from the rain and spoilage. Hay baling is a really recent technology.
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#46491
11/01/2001 6:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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Carpal Tunnel
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t'ricks are for kids...
::bud:: ::wise:: ::er:: <<--- silly ribbits
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#46492
11/01/2001 6:40 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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#46493
11/01/2001 7:06 PM
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This is an excerpt form a history book. In the middle it mentions "Captain Swing."
Isolated outbreaks of arson occurred during most of 1830. There had been industrial unrest throughout the cities of England
but the start of what became known as the "Swing Riots" began in August of that year with a thrashing machine being
destroyed at Lower Hadres in Kent. The French revolution in July had no doubt excited the labourers but their main
motivation was simply for a fair wage. However, despite the isolated attempts of extreme radicals, there was no organised
plot or co-ordination between these and future outbreaks. By December trouble had spread to every county south of a line
from Norfolk to Worcestershire although there were sporadic outbreaks occurring as far north as Carlisle. Many landowners
received threatening letters from the mythical "Captain Swing" while others experienced the full force of the rioters’ anger
with their barns and stacks being set ablaze or their machinery being broken. The less fortunate encountered a riotous mob
who would often threaten violence unless beer, money and food were not forthcoming. There was no centralise organising
committee but such was the deep seated feeling of oppression that as news of the troubles spread, there was no shortage
of local volunteers to lead or "Captain" his fellow workers. The subsequent trials showed not only the labouring class took to
the streets as some of those convicted (often as being the ring-leaders) were local tradesmen or small tenant farmers who
were obviously suffering along with the oppressed labourer.
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#46494
11/02/2001 12:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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the "Swing Riots" began in August of that year with a thrashing machine being
destroyed at Lower Hadres in Kent. Wow, the Kent thrashing-machine party! Dr. Bill, I am not making fun--my mind just works that way. I very much appreciate your finding that, especially since I had to look up a Hx of France to refresh my poor memory on the "revolution of 1830". Your research makes the poem VERY clearly a part of its time--thank you. Now--you also posted "silly post tsuwm". My dear, he is not a silly post: he's a human  . Post-graduate, possibly; posthumous, I don't think so; posturing--never that I've known of; postludinous--often  ; postulatory-- seldom (usually the opposite); post-master--indubitably!  =========================================================== I was thinking that tsuwm is seldom silly, and that reminded me of his comment in another thread, which I got the gist of as being that he often used to post that we could look things up, and now he has changed that style of posting. And that got me to thinking about how interesting group dynamics are: here, we seem to welcome differences--up to a point. As I recall, tsuwm received a couple of protests, pretty much exactly what was posted today in another thread, and changed. I can think of some examples of times when an individual has made posts SO different from "the norm" (don't ask me to define that!) that pressure from the group was brought to bear, and the individuals have yielded to that pressure, one way and another. Shoot--a few months back, a whole GROUP of newcomers put pressure on us old-timers to stop using what amounted to a "secret language" (YART being the first thing that comes to mind), and we did! (mostly )
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#46495
11/02/2001 1:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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I read some of those poems, but was unable to enjoy them. I think only their sociological implications warrant their being resurrected. Jethro Tull developed important advances in agriculture. The laborers
who worked for him objected to his labor saving devices, but the history mentioned no incidents of violence. His dates were1674-1741, well before the "Captain Swing" time.
The Luddites were active from 1811 to 1817. They feared new machinery in textile industry would put them out of work, and destroyed quite a few factories. A law was passed making this a capital offence, and perhaps a couple dozen of them were executed. They had nothing to do with the enclosure problem.
The history emphasized that the population had tripled, far exceeding the numbers needed for either the textile industry or agriculture. Poverty led to violence which led to transportation of a great many pathetic souls to the Pacific. Their descendants deserve as much respect as any population anywhere, bar none.
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#46496
11/02/2001 6:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
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or was it the jethro tulls?
Is this actually an historical name for a group of people, of troy (or anyone)? I love Jethro Tull (I have every one of their albums), and for all these years I just thought it was a strange name they came up with. I never delved into the whys and wherefores of the appellation.
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#46497
11/02/2001 7:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
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If I remember correctly [delving back into school history lessons] Jethro Tull was an 18th century innovator in agriculture. I think he invented a new sort of seed drill or something of the sort which greatly increased agricultural productivity. Over to Rhuby.
Bingley
Bingley
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#46498
11/02/2001 8:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>t'ricks are for kids...
::bud:: ::wise:: ::er:: <<--- silly ribbits
>tsuwm is seldom silly
He can be if he wants.
By the way, can you 'splain it to me as I'm rather dim. By pm if necessary. It is something to do with a reply to TEd's post. Is is something to do with a TV advert??? Budwieser frogs? But how does "t'ricks" fit in?
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#46499
11/02/2001 10:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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actually, jo, the role of the rabbit was more like that of the little purple ET-guy in the current ads for PrimeCo phones. [adding to the confusion -e]
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#46500
11/02/2001 10:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
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BTW, TEd, it is a little-known fact that that little purple ET-guy hails from the planet Trid, in the Alpha Centuri planetary system. The plot of the commercial is thus simply: Will he grab it? Such schticks are for Trids.
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#46501
11/02/2001 11:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>actually, jo, the role of the rabbit was more like that of the little purple ET-guy in the current ads for PrimeCo phones. [adding to the confusion -e]
Mmmmm, yes, clear as mud.
We have ET in the British Telecom TV ads (cost them a fortune apparently), not sure about a purple ET guy, I'll try and seek out some US stations on Internet TV (pretty good on ADSL), last night we listened to the Voice of Russia (it makes me feel like my father with his early crystal set).
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#46502
11/02/2001 1:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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tsuwm silly, Jo? Now that, I'd like to see! But--Trix is the name of a cold cereal marketed to children. In the ads, the cartoon rabbit was forever trying, and only just failing, to eat some Trix, and the children in the ad would say, "Silly rabbit--Trix are for kids!". I think the Budweiser explanation has been given here before, but that may have been while you were gone. In the ads, the beer truck drives down the road through the swamp, and the ...computerized, I guess...frogs each say a syllable of the brand name, in a deep, "froggy-sounding" voice: Bud...weis...er. Good grief!! Atomica just reminded me of something I had completely forgotten: Budweiser stands for "Because You Deserve What Every Individual Should Enjoy Regularly". (I didn't even know the internet HAD an acronym finder.) It even had a :-) after the explication.
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#46503
11/02/2001 1:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Carpal Tunnel
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how many people know what I'm talking about
*and care to admit it.
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#46504
11/02/2001 3:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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And remember the fate of the goats.
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#46505
11/02/2001 3:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the fate of the goats
They all 'scaped, din't they?
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#46506
11/02/2001 5:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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On Judgement Day, Our Lord took the sheep into heaven, and cast the goats into the outer darkness. I could have posted the paragraph but it was rather long.
Incidentally, I hereby humbly apologized to TEd and tsuwm. My deafness prevents my knowing about TV commercials.
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#46507
11/02/2001 10:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Gridip
Oh well at least they haven't all gome completely mad as I first suspected. I thought it had all gone interestingly surreal for a while.
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#46508
11/02/2001 11:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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#46509
11/02/2001 11:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,981 |
Thanks for the link musick. Now if I had only paid more attention ....
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#46510
11/03/2001 6:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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Jethro Tull invented the first practical seed drill in the early eighteenth century. His was one of half a dozen inventions which basically put the nail into the coffin of the old land tenancy arrangements over time and led to the enclosures, because to make the use of expensive machinery economical you needed a lot of land. Tull's drill wasn't really taken up for another century, and by then a bunch of other inventors had come up with something very similar. Tull wrote a book on good agricultural practice in the 1730s, describing, amongst other things, how his drill worked. Many of the subsequent drills seem to have been based on that information. He also described how you could make soil fertile by "pulverising" it. Experience "showed" that he had this right, but nowadays it is assumed that his apparent success with mechanical hoeing was more to do with the fact that he was suppressing the weeds which crowded the wheat plants out. Now, that's what I call living in the past ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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