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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Raven-ous? #45550 10/23/2001 1:03 AM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 328 Eastern Pennsylvania Rapunzel enthusiast Rapunzel enthusiast Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 328 Eastern Pennsylvania I was struck by this word today, and began to wonder if it was derived from the bird or from some other source. I found this definition in Atomica: rav·en·ous (răv'ə-nəs) adj. Extremely hungry; voracious. Rapacious; predatory. Greedy for gratification: ravenous for power. See synonyms at voracious. [Middle English, from Old French ravineux, from raviner, to take by force, from Vulgar Latin *rapīnāre, from Latin rapīna, plunder. See rapine.] This etymology, though sensible, doesn't quite satisfy me. I still think that the bird must be involved somehow! The OED definition of raven included this side note: The common raven is easily tamed, but is mischievous and thievish, and has been popularly regarded as a bird of evil omen and mysterious character. (my emphasis) Does anybody else think there might be a connection, or am I just out to lunch? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Raven-ous? #45551 10/23/2001 4:35 AM Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,542 this too shall pass tsuwm Carpal Tunnel tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,542 this too shall pass could be just one of those logostical coincidences. raven (the bird) seems to have Teutonic roots. (you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :) Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Raven-ous? #45552 10/23/2001 7:44 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 393 London NicholasW enthusiast NicholasW enthusiast Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 393 London Rapine and the alternative Middle English spelling ravin suggest that association with the bird might have helped move to and fix the -e- spelling. I think the Latin root rap- 'seize' is related to Greek harp- 'seize', as in the Harpies. The Old English and Old Norse for the bird were hrafn, but the h is unrelated, coming from an earlier k. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Raven-ous? #45553 10/23/2001 11:40 AM Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 866 Perth, Western Australia stales old hand stales old hand Joined: Nov 2000 Posts: 866 Perth, Western Australia Chambers says: raven/ravin/ravine: n, rapine: preying: prey (O.Fr. ravine, plunder-L. rapina-rapere, plunder, to sieze.) Having the same Latin root works for me. stales Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Raven-ous? #45554 10/23/2001 1:38 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 stales says Having the same Latin root works for me. Yeahbut©, raven¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/88/R0058800.html) and raven² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/R0058900.html) are no more the same words than are cleave¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/C0398900.html) and cleave² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/90/C0399000.html) or let¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/96/L0129600.html) and let² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/97/L0129700.html). Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Raven-ous? #45555 10/23/2001 3:34 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 328 Eastern Pennsylvania Rapunzel enthusiast Rapunzel enthusiast Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 328 Eastern Pennsylvania you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :) Exactly. I was indulging in a bit of decidedly unscholarly data-tweaking. Or selective reading, as the case may be. Any excuse for a word thread, right Uncle Bill? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. (have been... ------  Words from medicine  Beheading words  Meta-words  Words from classical mythology  Animal Safari  Words with unusual etymologies  Eponyms or words derived from p...  Loanwords from German  English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode Show Likes Link Copied to Clipboard View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary

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