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well gosharootie, it seems like it's time to turn things back to a lighter note, what with pc-ness and all. as intimated elsewhere hereabouts, I have a whole list of linguistic pet peeves [pp(s)]; i.e. and e.g. such as pp#2: irregardless -- I react as to nails on a blackboard whenever I hear this careless blend of regardless and irrespective.
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#4446
07/26/2000 12:55 AM
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>>well gosharootie<<
ALL RIGHT--WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE W/ TSUWM?
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>I react as to nails on a blackboard whenever I hear this
Tsuwm:
As do I. The other thing that gets well under my skin is the grammatical error of "I was interested in you going to the store for me" rather than the correct "...your going ...." For the life of me I know it shouldn't bother me at all but I have to grit my teeth to stop myself from screaming in anguish whenever I run across it.
TEd
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>gosharootie<
Oh, gracious, Jackie, there is a frivolous word flitting around the board! Shall we get a search party?
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<Shall we get a search party?>
Not really, screen. Because as an uninterested party of substantial frivolity myself, I am quite disinterested in searching for more. This is one of my all-time pet peeves, now alas becoming more and more common.
And here's another ... the pronunciation of kilometre. I will accept kill-om/-eter if you agree to say mill-im/-eter, cent-im/-eter, etc. These are units of length, related to the standard metre, not measuring devices such as altimeter (US pron.) or galvanometer. Boy, I bet this starts some kind of argument!
sakezuki lusy
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You know, I think just about the only times I have ever seen or heard "irregardless" are when people are complaining about it. Maybe if we all agreed not to mention it, it would just go away.
On a similar note, an article from English Today on the OED Online says that it mentions pneumonoultramicroscipicsilicovolcanoconiosis as occurring chiefly as an example of a very long word.
Bingley
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So many pet peeves from this crusty contributor.
A few of 'em:
whilst/amongst;
'new initiative' and 'period of time' (I know ... there are squillions of these, but these two really get on my wick);
the mispronunciation of 'exquisite' with the stress on the first 'i';
'honing in' on something;
'with regards to';
'fewer' where it should be 'less';
'thank-you' when it's not used as an adjective;
'infact', 'instore', 'alot' etc;
'lead instead of 'led'; and
'outside of'.
Hrmph! That's enough for the nonce.
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Perhaps it comes from spending too much time with lawyers, but my pet peeves are "the said" and the misuse of "such".
Bingley
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#4453
07/26/2000 10:46 AM
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I am also peeved at all the above examples, and would like to add to list the construction "I would have liked to have gone."
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#4454
07/26/2000 10:50 AM
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>ALL RIGHT--WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE W/ TSUWM?
>Shall we get a search party?
Has he been cyber-kidnapped?
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#4455
07/26/2000 12:54 PM
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From contemporary business usage:
1. Why is "impact" used as a verb. Why would someone want to "impact" my profitability (or morale, productivity, efficiency, etc.) instead of improving it? Or perhaps they are going to "negatively impact" (i.e lower) it.
2. Methodology - why not method? (Or, for that matter, technique, procedure, or algorithm?)
3. By the same token at what level of self-importance does a function become a "functionality"?
4. Experience. I didn't complete the speech, I had a successful presentation experience. My colleague does not have a baby sitter, her children have a home-based child care experience.
5. A parameter is a numerical measurement. The "parameters" of a discussion are the number of participants, the amount of time, or even the dimensions of the conference room. The agenda, ground rules, (e.g. questions at the end or questions as we go) and other guidelines for the discussion are not parameters. Is this some sort of confusion with "perimeter"?
6. "Goals and objectives" What is the difference between a goal and an objective?
7. Finally, why do we not exterminate (or at least neuter) any one who says or writes "Reference is made to your communication of Tuesday last." instead of "I read your letter."?
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>>Has he been cyber-kidnapped?<< Perhaps a renegade frivolous word (I hold "gosharootie" as the chief suspect) has managed to crash through the stronghold of worthless words and infiltrate his server (or was that master?) 
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>>You know, I think just about the only times I have ever seen or heard "irregardless" are when people are complaining about it. Maybe if we all agreed not to mention it, it would just go away. actually, I have had the misfortune to hear it alot.  hopefully, I will hear it less often now that you've disclaimed it. incidentally, another of my pet peeves is people complaining that the misuse of the word "hopefully" is the end of civilization (as we know it). >>On a similar note, an article from English Today on the OED Online says that it mentions pneumonoultramicroscipicsilicovolcanoconiosis as occurring chiefly as an example of a very long word. the longest word in the first edition of the OED was floccinaucinihilipilification - the categorizing of something as worthless - a very useful word indeed.
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more peeves:
mispronouncing et cetera as excetera (and misspelling the abbreviation as 'ect.')
people (typically athletes) who get "flustrated" -- evidently the condition affects the ability to speak sensibly as well.
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pleading guilty to ALL the above mentioned peccadilloes, i hereby withdraw from the discussion.
(irregardless of whether i was in it or not)
william
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>people (typically athletes) who get "flustrated" -- evidently the condition affects the ability to speak sensibly as well.
You reminded me of one that I'd put back into the nether reaches of my mind. I work with a guy who can't seem to use words right. Some years ago, he was reloading his printer with fan-fold paper. Gosh this seems ANCIENT!!!. Anyway, the box of paper he'd gotten from supplies had the holes on the edges to go through the pinfeed, but did not have the perforations to tear off the strips. He got it loaded into his machine, looked down, and said, "I can't use this, it isn't prohylacted right!"
TEd
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these are my current peeves:
1) 'notoriety' used to mean 'fame'. as in athletes gaining 'notoriety' when they first win a medal at the olympics - have heard it FAR TOO MANY TIMES recently on the radio to be a coincidence - AAARRRRRRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
2) 'begs the question' to mean 'raises the question' or 'suggests the question' etc - drives me BONKERS!!!!
3)using 'in terms of' ALL THE TIME when it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. for example, 'in terms of it's size, the building was tall' and 'the program had been successful in terms of increasing the use of sunscreen among australian children.'
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How about:
"utilize" instead of "use"
pronouncing the word nuclear as NOO kya lur
"fiscal" pronounced as "physical"
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#4463
07/27/2000 12:05 PM
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Welcome, Pip and hsthomas!
I can think of two that bug me, as well as many of the
previously-mentioned ones: when people say they've had their female dog "spaded", and one that is guaranteed to
make my teeth and fists clench: Ant-ART-ica, or the ART-ic.
OOOH!
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do we really require two(2) spellings for the word 'disk'? http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/
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>>do we really require two(2) spellings for the word 'disk'?
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/<<
Well, that's as clear as mud! Waugh-gh-gh!
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>do we really require two(2) spellings for the word 'disk'?
I never thought about it before, so I looked in my dictionary, where I discovered that disk comes from the Latin word for quoit. Which raises an interesting question:
If we stop people from using one of the two spellings, could we possibly be performing quoitus interruptus???
TEd
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Ted and some friends were taking a stroll by the river one fine Parisian evening when he slipped and rolled down the Left Bank. "I guess I am in Seine," quipped Ted with riparian glee as he dragged himself from the water.
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>Ted and some friends were taking a stroll by the river one fine Parisian evening when he slipped and rolled down the Left Bank. "I guess I am in Seine," quipped Ted with riparian glee as he dragged himself from the water<
I didn't do it. (I'm in de Nile.) So you can just Crimea River (with apologies to Judy Collins).
I was wandering through England, trying to get to London, when I founds the Signs of the Thames. Then I opted for solitude, so it was off to: Avon to be alone. From there I went to Rome, where I wrote a tale by the Tiber.
Which sort of reminds me of the story of Pancho Villa. He knew that if he controlled the Rio Grande he would control northern Mexico. Ambrose Bierce suggested to him that he could prevent American gunboats' entering the river if he scuttled garbage scows across the mouth. Villa sneered at him, "Barges? Barges? We don't need no sinking barges!"
(Remember, YOU started this!!!) GRIN!!!!!
TEd
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#4469
07/27/2000 11:53 PM
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In addition to the peeves mentioned already, nothing drives me more insaner than the double comparative!  Except possibly (and I thought I was going to be safe saying this as gasharootie had tsuwm locked away somewhere, but I see he's back! ) the use of momentarily to mean 'in a moment'. Tsuwm, my dictionary is not only British (Shorter Oxford) but an old edition. I'm sure you have a US source to defend your usage - do you have any international ones, or is this purely a North American usage? And sorry, even if you quote me a source, I'll still hate it! This is beyond rational. I only ever hear it on planes about to land, and it always makes me wonder how the passengers are all meant to get out in that single moment...
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I seem to recall that this came up here previously and there was some agreement that it is yet another British v. American usage. Webster's Third New Int'l gives four senses for momentarily: 1) for a moment <only momentarily troubled by such reports> 2) instantly <he groaned, but momentarily recovered his composure> 3) in a moment <we expect his arrival momentarily> 4) in a few minutes <I'll be there momentarily> I'll try to check the OED when I get a chance, unless someone has it to hand.
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which leads momentarily to the way that temporal terms in general tend to become inexact; or in the case of 'jiffy', an indeterminate time from a few seconds to forever, various disciplines use it to mean a) 1/100 of a second b) one millilscond and c) approximately one nanosecond.
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#4474
08/19/2000 12:19 PM
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>YES! Your post...
Max, help! without context (at this late date) it's difficult to know with whom you're agreeing...
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for those of us who agonize over usage, political correctness, and the POE (purity of essence) of our language <waving both hands in air>, I seriously suggest perusing this article from the Atlantic Monthly: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97mar/halpern/nunberg.htm
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I used to have a friend who worked in a convalescent home and on more than one occasion she talked about patients being "impacted." I think I have the spelling correct. "Mr. Smith in room 105 is impacted — better get the nurse and the Fleet's enema!"
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Thank you tsuwm for an excellent reference. Reading it and its links means I have now done no work this afternoon.
Bingley
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#4479
08/22/2000 11:39 AM
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michaelo, Just this morning, the Weather Channel had a heading of "Impact Weather" on the screen. Unfortunate choice, since the background setting was an airport! 
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Many of you who post here are expatriates, as was I for 17 years. Doesn't necessarily mean we've lost allegiance to the motherland.
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>>Just this morning, the Weather Channel had a heading of "Impact Weather" on the screen. Unfortunate choice, since the background setting was an airport! It would be an unfortunate choice if the airport actually had planes coming and going. (Or did you mean the "Impact" on my life? ) CANCELLED, DELAYED, BRANDED, Brandon
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Chocoholic: that would be someone who is addicted to chocohol, would it? Whatever that may be...
Also 'attendee'. A <verb>ee should be the object of the verb, not the subject, e.g. payee, employee. 'Attender' would be much better, as would escaper instead of escapee, although the latter is somehow less annoying. Perhaps that's because it's been around longer. I know, I know, it's a living language. Even OED, sadly, has 'attendee'. Does anyone else dislike the word?
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I dislike attendee. In arts marketing (in the UK, anyway) we tend to talk about attenders to differentiate them from intenders (people who are sympathathetic to an event but may never get round to attending).
I think it is just the rise and rise of business speak that makes these things grate so much. Conferences have delegates, performances have audiences, schools have pupils - I'm not sure if we need a word like attendee.
Incidentally - I spotted Jackie's suggestion in Information to install Gurunet and a couple of simple right clips came up with this:
"USAGE NOTE: Reflecting its origins in the French passive participle ending -é (feminine -ée), the suffix -ee was first used in English to refer to indirect objects and then direct objects of transitive verbs, particularly in legal contexts (as in donee, lessee, or trustee) and military and political jargon (draftee, trainee, or nominee). Beginning around the mid-19th century, primarily in American English, it was often extended to denote the agent or subject of an intransitive verb; for example, standee, returnee, or attendee. Although the pattern is very common and a number of these coinages, such as honoree, deportee, and escapee, have become widely accepted, in general they retain an informal character as jocular nonce words."
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Welcome, IanT. I will hazard a guess that you are British.
Chocohol does sound odd--would one drink it or eat it?? I can understand the usage, though: chocolatic simply doesn't carry the connotation of addiction that alcoholic does.
Re: attendee--my preference is to say people in attendance.
An 'attender' strikes me as indication that someone is paying attention, not always the case in an attendee.
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