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#44036 10/09/01 12:05 AM
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Does anyone have an idea of when the expression "mother of all" came into common usage in American English? For example, Hurricane Andrew was the mother of all hurricanes. Seems to me it's a fairly recent addition.


#44037 10/09/01 01:03 AM
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I first heard it when Saddam Hussien referred to "the mother of all wars". I assumed its use, in english, originated there.


#44038 10/09/01 12:58 PM
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I think it might also be connected to the Catholic prayer, "Holy Mary, mother of god, the lord is with thee," which predates Hussein by a long way.


#44039 10/09/01 12:59 PM
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Definitely not that recent, Keiva. My own sister roasted a huge Thanksgiving turkey, only to be stood up by another sister and her spouse, leaving sister #1 to eat the "mother of a turkey" alone. That was in the 70's, and it wasn't a new expression then. Sister #2 still talks about it.


#44040 10/09/01 01:10 PM
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<sigh> why don't we just assign it to Eve, the mother of us all?


#44041 10/09/01 02:11 PM
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Interesting, tsuwm. Quite a woman she was.


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Definitely not that recent, Keiva. [Keller] My own sister roasted a huge Thanksgiving turkey, only to be stood up by another sister and her spouse, leaving sister #1 to eat the "mother of a turkey".
Agreed that that phrase is older (and I believe it's a polite abbreviation for mother-f*cker), meaning "one hell of a big-'un".

But I don't think it's the same as "the mother of all _____". For example, your neighbor might also have another mother of a turkey on his table, another big-'un. That is, several turkeys could be "a mother of a turkey"; none is unique. In contrast, "mother of all wars" implies (to me) a unique war, unlike any other. Thus, one speaks of "a mother of a turkey", but "the mother of all wars".





#44043 10/09/01 04:58 PM
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(and I believe it's a polite abbreviation for mother-f*cker)

Sorry Kieva but I knew "mother of all" before I ever even *heard the f-word ... let alone knew what it meant!
I think tsuwm (as usual) is on the right track - the Mother Of All is Eve - the Original - the Unequaled !


#44044 10/09/01 05:20 PM
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Ann - in the same sense, with "the mother of all __" being a different concept than "a mother of a ___"?

If so, that is very interesting, because it suggests that the "mother of all" idiom occurs both in english and in persian -- not just something that english recently picked up from Saddam's usage.

Any idea of how the two languages, shall we say, cross-fertilized?


#44045 10/09/01 05:43 PM
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Like Keiva, I never heard the expression, until it was attributed to Saddam Hussein. I suspect it was a reporter's tranlation of an Arabic phrase.


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