today during lunch the conversation turned to the flavor of certain things. i made a comment about the flavor of water, to which my mother-in-law responded that while she may think of water as having a taste she does not believe that it has a flavor. yet we were unable to describe the difference between taste and flavor. the best we could do was suggest that flavor may be associated with aroma.
can anyone provide a better distinction or description?
I think of flavor as being varietal, whereas taste describes salinity, acidity, and odor. I think that one's nose AND tongue describe taste, but our tongues and the rest of our esophageal lining identify flavor. Now, does that flavor this to your taste?
Water has a taste that is usually associated with the minerals dissolved in it. Distilled water tastes odd because it has almost no minerals or anything else to be detected by our sensory apparatus. Some minerals are easy to identify, salt for instance. Others may be bitter. Acids have a sour taste. Smell and taste go together. Fruit flavors are largely detected by smell. Even when the nostrils ares blocked some aerosols get into the nasal cavity from the pharynx. I would not say water had a flavor unless something has been added to it. But we all know that just going from one town to another, the taste of the water changes. I remember reading over fifty years ago when the Prince of Wales came to America, trained persons in his entourage took distilled water, and added just the right minerals to it to make it taste like the water he was used to at home.
The best water I ever had was when I was a child. Our house was built into a hill of solid red clay and the well was deep below. The water was so cold and sweet........... The best water smell is in the desert when it rains. The smell of wet caliche is incredible. And, of course, the best water feeling is when it's been over 100 degrees F. for days and the humidity is 100% and you dive in the northern waters of Lake Michigan.
In chem classes we were taught that water may, in part, be defined a "tasteless, colourless and odorlous liquid".
As somebody else mentioned, it gets a flavour or taste only when it has other stuff dissolved in it. Interesting thing thing about water that tastes awful (like the legendary stuff served up by the public water authority to the folk of Adelaide, South Australia) - it often makes good beer!! (Make mine a Cooper's!!)
The taste of water can also change when the air ordinarily dissolved in it is lost as when it gets warm on standing for a few hours in a glass,and is seen as bubbles clinging to the side of the glass.The water is then said to be stale. I am a bit skeptical about the assertion that good beer can be made from bad tasting water.
I was taking liberties with the "bad tasting" bit - really was only referring to "fresh" water (as opposed to salty water) with relatively high content of dissolved salts. Good beer is often a product of "hard" water and, in particular, that with an elevated content of calcium - like that in Adelaide (and some parts of Perth where the supply comes from calcium rich groundwater).
I can easily imagine a very satisfactory beer being made from hard water, meaning elevated calcium. But when there are sulfides, etc. a lot of treatment would be needed. A couple years ago I was living in a place where the water stank of hydrogen sulfide before it went through the zeolite softener. The water tasted OK after treatment, but I would hesitate to invest in a brewery using it.
Dear consuelo: A long time ago I read in a book that Mexicans used to cool drinking water by storing it in a large unglazed ceramic container, which leaked enough water so that the outside was constantly wet. The evaporation of the outside water cooled the container. I believe the name for the container was "olla". When I was on the troopship, our drinking water was made by evaporation and condensation of sea water, and the bubblers delivered very warm water. I covered my canteen with a sock, which I wet when filling the canteen. Evaporation would get rid of the warmth, though I could never get it really cool. Would you call a canteen like that an "olla"? I did, because I didn't know any other word.
I'm with you, Dr. Bill. When you were in the East of the US, did you ever drink Iron City Beer? It's made in Pittsburgh, where they have horrible-tasting water. Iron City Beer tastes like they soak sashweights in it. But, of course, there are some natives of western PA who actually like the stuff, having been brought up on Pittsburgh water.
Dear BYB: I lived in Philadelphia for a few months, but never got west of there. There was a joke during Prohibition about the bootlegger who got so proud of his beer that he sent a sample to a testing laboratory, and got back a report: "Dear Sir: Your horse has diabetes." A lot of local beers could get a similar report.
Well wadda' ya know ! A place where age is useful ! Do you know what "double hung windows are? They are oblong or squarish shaped windows that split in middle so top half can be lowered or bottom half raised. The side part is called the shash.
Anyway... in "older" days the action of raising or lowering was controlled by ropes which had a weigth attached to keep the window open to where you wanted it. If the weight and ropes weren't working properly then you had to use a stick to prop the lower half where you wanted it. I lived in a circa 1900 house at one time and had to have a carpenter remove the sash, replace the ropes and re-attach the sashweights and replace the sashs.Then, of course I had to paint the windows! The sashweights themselves are long slender and silvery color and were made (I think) of lead. I Googled "sash weights" and several sites came up but I couldn't get any to display. (sigh) You might give it a try, maybe you'll have better luck than I did.
And does anyone remember San Miguel beer in the Philippines? Quality control (about 1969-70) was not very even-handed so one beer would be very mild and the next one had alcohol content so high it would knock you on your a** ! River water was used to make it and the service folks stationed in PI who were beer drinkers liked it!
All the sashweights i have seen in NY are cast iron. my house has double hung windows and sash weights, but all the sash ropes have been replaced with chains that don't wear out.
sashweight were also used a weapons, since they were cheap and readily available. thugs (now is a good word!) would bash your head in with a sashweight in the early years of the last century in some of the less savory neighborhoods of large cities.
most modern double hung windows are spring-loaded.
>Mexicans used to cool drinking water by storing it in a large unglazed ceramic container
They still do, especially out in the sticks where running water and electricity are still hard to come by. Also, many people still use them because they like the taste. I have one in my kitchen right now. Whenever anyone in my family goes to visit in Mexico and mine is broken, they bring me another. The flavor of the water is much like the smell of caliche after a rain. It is called "olla" but also can be called "cántaro". These were the jugs carried to the well or river for filling. I only saw a large one on a ranch near Big Bend National Park. Most household sized "cántaros" hold 1-1 and 1/2 gallons. What you fashioned out of a canteen and a sock is known as a "cantina" or a "cantimplora", thus the americanized version, canteen. They are normally made from metal and covered with coarsely woven wool or heavy canvas. Unglazed clay is a much better medium for cooling. Compare tile roofs to metal roofs. Evaporative cooling only works well where the humidity is negligible.
Over fifty years ago, almost all sash cords were vegetable fibre that could be attacked by molds or simply become stiff and weak from age. It used to be quite startling to have a fifty year old sash cord break during the night, and cause the sash weight to fall with a thump that would wake up all the occupants of the house. Nylon cord would undoubtedly last much longer. I have no idea how expensive chain would be. But the newer devices take up less space, are easier and less expensive to install, are less susceptible to heat loss and drafts, and work more smoothly. I found several sites by entering "pictures window sashes cords sash weights" into Yahoo! search box. But none were good enough to tempt me to post URL.
Thanks, consuelo. The definition of "caliche" in my dictionary seems not to fit your description, and I think yours is to be preferred. The dictionary speaks of alternating very wet and dry seasons bringing up dissolved calcium carbonate which then dries out on the surface. In my freshman year in high school my home room teacher taught Spanish she learned as a girl with her father, who was a prospector in Southwest. I still remember her telling about their leading a couple pack burros up an arroyo when suddenly her father grabbed her and dashed up the banks just seconds before a wall of water came tearing down the dry gully. I don't remember her praising the odor of caliche on that occasion.
Yes, flash flooding is terrifying and very dangerous. The water moves with such force that nothing, including boulders, vehicles, trees, etc. can withstand it. Normally this occurs when it is raining hard further up in the mountains. I lived for a time between the twin canyons sacred to the Apache between the Rio Grande and the Rio Conchos. It was very graphically revealed to me where the saying "God willing and the creek don't rise." came from. A calm rain falling then and there did not cause more than a slight swelling of the canyons output and smelled delicious. In the desert, any rain is welcome, at least in the first several minutes. The natives of the area always refered to the hardpacked hardpan, white crusted clay-based soil as caliche. I always understood it to refer to the soil, anyway.
(1) As part of what I assume to be a global swing to bottled "mineral" or "spring" waters, it's not uncommon to see a clay water dispenser in the kitchens and lunch rooms of Oz. Whilst the big plastic bottles are far more common, the unglazed or partly glazed clay equivalent are present in force.
(2) Intrigued to see the use of the word "bubbler". This is what we called them in the schoolyards and parks of Sydney, but you get a blank stare when you use the word here in Perth (on the other side of the country). Over here it's the far more "pucka" English: "drinking fountain". What's the word where YOU are?
(3) Sash cords in Oz have always been made from cotton rope. It must be a braided rather than wound rope or it won't run through the rollers effectively. The weights are cast iron - may have been lead once upon a time, but I doubt it.
(4) Sisal water bags have always been an important part of Australia, their constant weeping keeps the contents cool through evaporation. Whilst you don't see them a lot any more, they're readily available at camping stores and those quaint general stores in the bush that carry EVERYTHING! There is even a "flash" model with a leather backing plate and buckles so you can affix it it to the tray or roo bar of your vehicle. When referring to a REALLY hot day, old timers and rural folk may say, "It was about 120 degrees in the water bag"
(5) The "smell" of rain is technically incorrect - water by definition has no smell. The beautiful earthy smell immediately before a downpour on a hot dusty day is actually how your nose inteprets the spores of certain soil bacteria - released as the humidity level approaches 100%!! (In microbiol classes we were asked to identify certain bacteria and fungi by their smell. It was fascinating to see people's faces when they smelt the "rainy" dish - eyes would widen and a big smile would spread across their face - usually with the comment, "It smells like a thunderstorm!")
The usual terminology in the UK for the style of windows which incorporate these counterweights is "sash windows".
There is a history of the windows and an image library at the site of the one of the main UK suppliers/restorers of sash windows:
The origins of the sash window have been the subject of much investigation and speculation. Until recently, the general opinion tended to be that the sash was invented in Holland in the late 17th Century. Recently, however, valuable research work undertaken by Dr Hinte Louw, of the University of Newcastle Upon Tyne, suggests that the sash could have been invented earlier in the 17th Century in England. Another school of thought suggest that the sash originated in France and spread to England via Holland. The word "sash", derived from the French "chassis" , means frame. Charles Brooking, Historian, and curator of the Box Sash Museum. Copyright Original Box Sash Window Company. For a history of these windows in the UK see: ref library at http://www.boxsash.com/
to the tray or roo bar of your vehicle Er--would you please elaborate on what parts of a vehicle both of these things are? As far as I know, the only vehicles that have trays here are limousines. Oh, there are ash trays, but in a lot of models the front is flush with the dashboard, so you couldn't really hook anything on to them. Needless to say, we don't have roo bars here. Rhubarb, yes, and there is a lovely one in England, as well...
THANK YOU for explaining the "thunderstorm smell"! I've always wanted to know what that was caused by. I am getting more and more impressed by you, sir!
there is a second aroma to thunderstorms, ozone. unless the ground get very dry, and in the northeast US, that is pretty rare, you can get the soft earthy smell of bacteria from sitting or lieing on the grass. some slime mold even has the same sort of fresh, moist scent.
but after lightning has struck nearby, you can smell ozone. the whole of the eastern (east of rockies) US gets thunderstorms pretty regularly in the summer, the further south, the more you get. NY get about 2 a month in the summer, and we have had them every month of the year, (including thunder and lightning snow storms) but florida get thunderstorms about 3 times a week.
while i have heard bubblers i never use it for a water fountain.
and the ropes for sashes, were two ply, an inner core, with a woven (braided) cover, that was a polished cotton. the same sort of rope/line that was use for clothes lines. In NY, and in many cities, clothes lines ran from an apartment kitchen, to a telephone pole in the back yard. there were pullies at either end, and the clothes line rope had to be durable, and rot resistant. other cities had the same system, (boston, phily, etc,) county clothes lines usually didn't have pullies, and were lighter weight rope. and often, where only strung when needed, then, wound up like a water hose till the next wash day.
water is, at its best, clear, oderless, and tasteless. such water is sometime called sweet. filtered rainwater is the best example of such water. in places where the ground water is especially harsh, many collect rain water. municiple systems can be ground water, running (river) water or reservior water. reserviors, which are collected rain water, provided the catchment area is pristine, is usually the best tasting. (most tastless!)
"(In microbiol classes we were asked to identify certain bacteria and fungi by their smell."
Dear stales: I hope they have stopped asking anybody to smell cultures any more. Particularly with coccidioides immitis, one whiff can be fatal for some people.
Jackie, I think you're being just a tad "ironic" here. But, just in case I have mistaken you here it is:
"tray" - the back end of a utility vehicle where you put everything. Flat bed.
"roo bars". Short for "kangaroo bars". Heavy duty tubing shield around the front of the vehicle to fend off kangaroos. Principally used for roos in the Strine. Used for show everywhere else ...
I deliberately put those terms in to elicit such a response - and now I'm reduced to making an dumb, uninformative post.
(May as well get in a spot of Kiwi bashing to make it worthwhile).....Jest another example of NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up folks.
I deliberately put those terms in to elicit such a response - and now I'm reduced to making a dumb, uninformative post.
(May as well get in a spot of Kiwi bashing to make it worthwhile).....Jest another example of NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up folks.
NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up Note that stales is adopting MaxQ's geographic view as to which of the compass points constitutes "up".
"tray" - the back end of a utility vehicle where you put everything. Flat bed. Ahem--the flat part at the back of a utility vehicle is known, logically, as "the back". As in, "Put it in the back." Don't tell me: you say, "Put it in the tray". Trays are on the backs of airplane seats, or in your kitchen cabinet, and you serve or carry things on them. Stales, you should have logged on earlier--I know you would have told me true!
>"roo bars". Short for "kangaroo bars". Heavy duty tubing shield around the front of the vehicle to fend off kangaroos. Principally used for roos in the Strine. Used for show everywhere else ...
Being deficient in the marsupial department we have "bull bars" in the UK. As few people in cities come up against many bulls in daily life, they became a little less fashionable when it was shown that they dramatically increased the injuries of a pedestrian involved in a collision with a car with bull bars fitted.
By the way, if you read down to where the National Curriculum is being discussed, my younger daughter is, at this very moment, studying the Battle of Hastings in a Scottish school. I'm still in recovery from having to do the "Scottish Wars of Independence" from the other side's point of view but then that's history for you!
Ahem--the flat part at the back of a utility vehicle is known, logically, as "the back". and what are the terms for the rear area of a station wagon, and for the shelf just behind the rear seats of a four-door coupe?
When the kids were little, we called the former part of our station wagon the "wayback". Later shortened this to "wabe" (pronounced with two syllables), in honor of Humpty Dumpty and Jabberwocky.
The back of a station wagon is just that - the back! It gets the wanky wank name of "cargo area" in the glossy brochures. And Jackie - you DO put things IN the tray.
Roo bars tend to be known as Bull Bars in the outback - because there are bulls (and camels and horses and donkeys) to be avoided out there. Worked with a Canadian once who couldn't work out why we bothered with all this ironmongery on our vehicles - after all, "none of those guys is as big as a moose and we don't put those bars on our trucks in Canada". I think he had a good point!! Guess if you see a moose on the road you just kiss your ass (donkey?) goodbye.
The ledge behind the seats is the "package tray" in the eastern states of Oz and the "parcel shelf" in WA. Interestingly, there was a factory accessory for my 1964 restoration project known as a parcel shelf. Had me puzzled until I saw a photo - they bolted on underneath the glove box in front of the front seat passenger. Must've confused the Western Australians at the time!
Incidentally, what you US'ns call the trunk is what we call the boot.
By golly - we've come a long way from the taste of water on this one!! Sorry Xara.
By golly - we've come a long way from the taste of water on this one!! Sorry Xara. Yes, we see your crocodile tears. Pretty subtle dig, that.
The back of a station wagon is just that - the back! Exactly. Thank you. And, one puts things ON trays. One puts things IN the back of the UV, the station wagon, or in the bed of a truck. [Throwing down the gauntlet e.]
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Hope you can get her on Board.
Pretty subtle dig, that.
