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today during lunch the conversation turned to the flavor of certain things. i made a comment about the flavor of water, to which my mother-in-law responded that while she may think of water as having a taste she does not believe that it has a flavor. yet we were unable to describe the difference between taste and flavor. the best we could do was suggest that flavor may be associated with aroma.
can anyone provide a better distinction or description?
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old hand
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I think of flavor as being varietal, whereas taste describes salinity, acidity, and odor. I think that one's nose AND tongue describe taste, but our tongues and the rest of our esophageal lining identify flavor. Now, does that flavor this to your taste? 
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Water has a taste that is usually associated with the minerals dissolved in it. Distilled water tastes odd because it has almost no minerals or anything else to be detected by our sensory apparatus. Some minerals are easy to identify, salt for instance. Others may be bitter. Acids have a sour taste. Smell and taste go together. Fruit flavors are largely detected by smell. Even when the nostrils ares blocked some aerosols get into the nasal cavity from the pharynx.
I would not say water had a flavor unless something has been added to it. But we all know that just going from one town to another, the taste of the water changes. I remember reading over fifty years ago when the Prince of Wales came to America, trained persons in his entourage took distilled water, and added just the right minerals to it to make it taste like the water he was used to at home.
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when the Prince of Wales came to AmericaLegend has it that he's slated for a second coming next June 
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In what ghostly archive was the legend written that Edward VIII and his horses would be reincarnated to play polo here again?
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Besides, the current PoW already has two sons.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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The best water I ever had was when I was a child. Our house was built into a hill of solid red clay and the well was deep below. The water was so cold and sweet...........
The best water smell is in the desert when it rains. The smell of wet caliche is incredible.
And, of course, the best water feeling is when it's been over 100 degrees F. for days and the humidity is 100% and you dive in the northern waters of Lake Michigan.
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Xara, it occurs to me that we can say something "tastes flavorful"; but I'm too tired to work out the significance.
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old hand
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In chem classes we were taught that water may, in part, be defined a "tasteless, colourless and odorlous liquid".
As somebody else mentioned, it gets a flavour or taste only when it has other stuff dissolved in it. Interesting thing thing about water that tastes awful (like the legendary stuff served up by the public water authority to the folk of Adelaide, South Australia) - it often makes good beer!! (Make mine a Cooper's!!)
stales
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The taste of water can also change when the air ordinarily dissolved in it is lost as when it gets warm on standing for a few hours in a glass,and is seen as bubbles clinging to the side of the glass.The water is then said to be stale.
I am a bit skeptical about the assertion that good beer can be made from bad tasting water.
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OUR WATER'S NOT THAT BAD!!
And I'll shout you a Cooper's sometime...
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re "good beer can be made from bad tasting water"
Trust me.
I was taking liberties with the "bad tasting" bit - really was only referring to "fresh" water (as opposed to salty water) with relatively high content of dissolved salts. Good beer is often a product of "hard" water and, in particular, that with an elevated content of calcium - like that in Adelaide (and some parts of Perth where the supply comes from calcium rich groundwater).
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I can easily imagine a very satisfactory beer being made from hard water, meaning elevated calcium. But when there are sulfides, etc. a lot of treatment would be needed. A couple years ago I was living in a place where the water stank of hydrogen sulfide before it went through the zeolite softener. The water tasted OK after treatment, but I would hesitate to invest in a brewery using it.
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Dear consuelo: A long time ago I read in a book that Mexicans used to cool drinking water by storing it in a large unglazed ceramic container, which leaked enough water so that the outside was constantly wet. The evaporation of the outside water cooled the container. I believe the name for the container was "olla". When I was on the troopship, our drinking water was made by evaporation and condensation of sea water, and the bubblers delivered very warm water. I covered my canteen with a sock, which I wet when filling the canteen. Evaporation would get rid of the warmth, though I could never get it really cool. Would you call a canteen like that an "olla"? I did, because I didn't know any other word.
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I'm with you, Dr. Bill. When you were in the East of the US, did you ever drink Iron City Beer? It's made in Pittsburgh, where they have horrible-tasting water. Iron City Beer tastes like they soak sashweights in it. But, of course, there are some natives of western PA who actually like the stuff, having been brought up on Pittsburgh water.
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Dear BYB: I lived in Philadelphia for a few months, but never got west of there. There was a joke during Prohibition about the bootlegger who got so proud of his beer that he sent a sample to a testing laboratory, and got back a report: "Dear Sir: Your horse has diabetes." A lot of local beers could get a similar report.
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What are sashweights? Atomica draws a blank. and aenigma helpfully suggests Saskatchewan
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Well wadda' ya know ! A place where age is useful ! Do you know what "double hung windows are? They are oblong or squarish shaped windows that split in middle so top half can be lowered or bottom half raised. The side part is called the shash. Anyway... in "older" days the action of raising or lowering was controlled by ropes which had a weigth attached to keep the window open to where you wanted it. If the weight and ropes weren't working properly then you had to use a stick to prop the lower half where you wanted it. I lived in a circa 1900 house at one time and had to have a carpenter remove the sash, replace the ropes and re-attach the sashweights and replace the sashs.Then, of course I had to paint the windows! The sashweights themselves are long slender and silvery color and were made (I think) of lead. I Googled "sash weights" and several sites came up but I couldn't get any to display. (sigh) You might give it a try, maybe you'll have better luck than I did. Later Edit try http://freespace.virgin.net/s.free/recon4.jpgfor a cut-away picture. The long blackish thingie is the sash weight!
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And does anyone remember San Miguel beer in the Philippines? Quality control (about 1969-70) was not very even-handed so one beer would be very mild and the next one had alcohol content so high it would knock you on your a** !
River water was used to make it and the service folks stationed in PI who were beer drinkers liked it!
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All the sashweights i have seen in NY are cast iron. my house has double hung windows and sash weights, but all the sash ropes have been replaced with chains that don't wear out.
sashweight were also used a weapons, since they were cheap and readily available. thugs (now is a good word!) would bash your head in with a sashweight in the early years of the last century in some of the less savory neighborhoods of large cities.
most modern double hung windows are spring-loaded.
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>Mexicans used to cool drinking water by storing it in a large unglazed ceramic container
They still do, especially out in the sticks where running water and electricity are still hard to come by. Also, many people still use them because they like the taste. I have one in my kitchen right now. Whenever anyone in my family goes to visit in Mexico and mine is broken, they bring me another. The flavor of the water is much like the smell of caliche after a rain. It is called "olla" but also can be called "cántaro". These were the jugs carried to the well or river for filling. I only saw a large one on a ranch near Big Bend National Park. Most household sized "cántaros" hold 1-1 and 1/2 gallons.
What you fashioned out of a canteen and a sock is known as a "cantina" or a "cantimplora", thus the americanized version, canteen. They are normally made from metal and covered with coarsely woven wool or heavy canvas. Unglazed clay is a much better medium for cooling. Compare tile roofs to metal roofs. Evaporative cooling only works well where the humidity is negligible.
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Over fifty years ago, almost all sash cords were vegetable fibre that could be attacked by molds or simply become stiff and weak from age. It used to be quite startling to have a fifty year old sash cord break during the night, and cause the sash weight to fall with a thump that would wake up all the occupants of the house. Nylon cord would undoubtedly last much longer. I have no idea how expensive chain would be.
But the newer devices take up less space, are easier and less expensive to install, are less susceptible to heat loss and drafts, and work more smoothly.
I found several sites by entering "pictures window sashes cords sash weights" into Yahoo! search box. But none were good enough to tempt me to post URL.
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Thanks, consuelo. The definition of "caliche" in my dictionary seems not to fit your description, and I think yours is to be preferred. The dictionary speaks of alternating very wet and dry seasons bringing up dissolved calcium carbonate which then dries out on the surface. In my freshman year in high school my home room teacher taught Spanish she learned as a girl with her father, who was a prospector in Southwest. I still remember her telling about their leading a couple pack burros up an arroyo when suddenly her father grabbed her and dashed up the banks just seconds before a wall of water came tearing down the dry gully.
I don't remember her praising the odor of caliche on that occasion.
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Yes, flash flooding is terrifying and very dangerous. The water moves with such force that nothing, including boulders, vehicles, trees, etc. can withstand it. Normally this occurs when it is raining hard further up in the mountains. I lived for a time between the twin canyons sacred to the Apache between the Rio Grande and the Rio Conchos. It was very graphically revealed to me where the saying "God willing and the creek don't rise." came from. A calm rain falling then and there did not cause more than a slight swelling of the canyons output and smelled delicious. In the desert, any rain is welcome, at least in the first several minutes. The natives of the area always refered to the hardpacked hardpan, white crusted clay-based soil as caliche. I always understood it to refer to the soil, anyway.
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Various things spring to mind:
(1) As part of what I assume to be a global swing to bottled "mineral" or "spring" waters, it's not uncommon to see a clay water dispenser in the kitchens and lunch rooms of Oz. Whilst the big plastic bottles are far more common, the unglazed or partly glazed clay equivalent are present in force.
(2) Intrigued to see the use of the word "bubbler". This is what we called them in the schoolyards and parks of Sydney, but you get a blank stare when you use the word here in Perth (on the other side of the country). Over here it's the far more "pucka" English: "drinking fountain". What's the word where YOU are?
(3) Sash cords in Oz have always been made from cotton rope. It must be a braided rather than wound rope or it won't run through the rollers effectively. The weights are cast iron - may have been lead once upon a time, but I doubt it.
(4) Sisal water bags have always been an important part of Australia, their constant weeping keeps the contents cool through evaporation. Whilst you don't see them a lot any more, they're readily available at camping stores and those quaint general stores in the bush that carry EVERYTHING! There is even a "flash" model with a leather backing plate and buckles so you can affix it it to the tray or roo bar of your vehicle. When referring to a REALLY hot day, old timers and rural folk may say, "It was about 120 degrees in the water bag"
(5) The "smell" of rain is technically incorrect - water by definition has no smell. The beautiful earthy smell immediately before a downpour on a hot dusty day is actually how your nose inteprets the spores of certain soil bacteria - released as the humidity level approaches 100%!! (In microbiol classes we were asked to identify certain bacteria and fungi by their smell. It was fascinating to see people's faces when they smelt the "rainy" dish - eyes would widen and a big smile would spread across their face - usually with the comment, "It smells like a thunderstorm!")
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The usual terminology in the UK for the style of windows which incorporate these counterweights is "sash windows". There is a history of the windows and an image library at the site of the one of the main UK suppliers/restorers of sash windows: The origins of the sash window have been the subject of much investigation and speculation. Until recently, the general opinion tended to be that the sash was invented in Holland in the late 17th Century. Recently, however, valuable research work undertaken by Dr Hinte Louw, of the University of Newcastle Upon Tyne, suggests that the sash could have been invented earlier in the 17th Century in England. Another school of thought suggest that the sash originated in France and spread to England via Holland.
The word "sash", derived from the French "chassis" , means frame.
Charles Brooking, Historian, and curator of the Box Sash Museum.
Copyright Original Box Sash Window Company.For a history of these windows in the UK see: ref library at http://www.boxsash.com/
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to the tray or roo bar of your vehicleEr--would you please elaborate on what parts of a vehicle both of these things are? As far as I know, the only vehicles that have trays here are limousines. Oh, there are ash trays, but in a lot of models the front is flush with the dashboard, so you couldn't really hook anything on to them. Needless to say, we don't have roo bars here. Rhubarb, yes, and there is a lovely one in England, as well... THANK YOU for explaining the "thunderstorm smell"! I've always wanted to know what that was caused by. I am getting more and more impressed by you, sir! 
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there is a second aroma to thunderstorms, ozone. unless the ground get very dry, and in the northeast US, that is pretty rare, you can get the soft earthy smell of bacteria from sitting or lieing on the grass. some slime mold even has the same sort of fresh, moist scent.
but after lightning has struck nearby, you can smell ozone.
the whole of the eastern (east of rockies) US gets thunderstorms pretty regularly in the summer, the further south, the more you get. NY get about 2 a month in the summer, and we have had them every month of the year, (including thunder and lightning snow storms) but florida get thunderstorms about 3 times a week.
while i have heard bubblers i never use it for a water fountain.
and the ropes for sashes, were two ply, an inner core, with a woven (braided) cover, that was a polished cotton. the same sort of rope/line that was use for clothes lines. In NY, and in many cities, clothes lines ran from an apartment kitchen, to a telephone pole in the back yard. there were pullies at either end, and the clothes line rope had to be durable, and rot resistant. other cities had the same system, (boston, phily, etc,) county clothes lines usually didn't have pullies, and were lighter weight rope. and often, where only strung when needed, then, wound up like a water hose till the next wash day.
water is, at its best, clear, oderless, and tasteless. such water is sometime called sweet. filtered rainwater is the best example of such water. in places where the ground water is especially harsh, many collect rain water. municiple systems can be ground water, running (river) water or reservior water. reserviors, which are collected rain water, provided the catchment area is pristine, is usually the best tasting. (most tastless!)
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"(In microbiol classes we were asked to identify certain bacteria and fungi by their smell."
Dear stales: I hope they have stopped asking anybody to smell cultures any more. Particularly with coccidioides immitis, one whiff can be fatal for some people.
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Jackie, I think you're being just a tad "ironic" here. But, just in case I have mistaken you here it is:
"tray" - the back end of a utility vehicle where you put everything. Flat bed.
"roo bars". Short for "kangaroo bars". Heavy duty tubing shield around the front of the vehicle to fend off kangaroos. Principally used for roos in the Strine. Used for show everywhere else ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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my mother-in-law responded that while she may think of water as having a taste she does not believe that it has a flavorSounds like our kind of gal, xara! Hope you can get her on Board.
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Well steal MY thunder why don't you CapK!! P-)
I deliberately put those terms in to elicit such a response - and now I'm reduced to making an dumb, uninformative post.
(May as well get in a spot of Kiwi bashing to make it worthwhile).....Jest another example of NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up folks.
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Well steal MY thunder why don't you CapK!! P-)
I deliberately put those terms in to elicit such a response - and now I'm reduced to making a dumb, uninformative post.
(May as well get in a spot of Kiwi bashing to make it worthwhile).....Jest another example of NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up folks.
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NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it upNote that stales is adopting MaxQ's geographic view as to which of the compass points constitutes "up".
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"tray" - the back end of a utility vehicle where you put everything. Flat bed.Ahem--the flat part at the back of a utility vehicle is known, logically, as "the back". As in, "Put it in the back." Don't tell me: you say, "Put it in the tray". Trays are on the backs of airplane seats, or in your kitchen cabinet, and you serve or carry things on them. Stales, you should have logged on earlier--I know you would have told me true!
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>"roo bars". Short for "kangaroo bars". Heavy duty tubing shield around the front of the vehicle to fend off kangaroos. Principally used for roos in the Strine. Used for show everywhere else ... Being deficient in the marsupial department we have "bull bars" in the UK. As few people in cities come up against many bulls in daily life, they became a little less fashionable when it was shown that they dramatically increased the injuries of a pedestrian involved in a collision with a car with bull bars fitted. You might like this extract from Hansard, from when the matter was discussed in 1996 (it gives me very little confidence in the quality of debate in the upper house)!: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199697/ldhansrd/pdvn/nineties/text/60708-3.htm I'd missed the comma in the following phrase "Lord Tebbit of xenophobia" and thought it must be a spoof! By the way, if you read down to where the National Curriculum is being discussed, my younger daughter is, at this very moment, studying the Battle of Hastings in a Scottish school. I'm still in recovery from having to do the "Scottish Wars of Independence" from the other side's point of view but then that's history for you!
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Ahem--the flat part at the back of a utility vehicle is known, logically, as "the back".
and what are the terms for the rear area of a station wagon, and for the shelf just behind the rear seats of a four-door coupe?
When the kids were little, we called the former part of our station wagon the "wayback". Later shortened this to "wabe" (pronounced with two syllables), in honor of Humpty Dumpty and Jabberwocky.
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The back of a station wagon is just that - the back! It gets the wanky wank name of "cargo area" in the glossy brochures. And Jackie - you DO put things IN the tray.
Roo bars tend to be known as Bull Bars in the outback - because there are bulls (and camels and horses and donkeys) to be avoided out there. Worked with a Canadian once who couldn't work out why we bothered with all this ironmongery on our vehicles - after all, "none of those guys is as big as a moose and we don't put those bars on our trucks in Canada". I think he had a good point!! Guess if you see a moose on the road you just kiss your ass (donkey?) goodbye.
The ledge behind the seats is the "package tray" in the eastern states of Oz and the "parcel shelf" in WA. Interestingly, there was a factory accessory for my 1964 restoration project known as a parcel shelf. Had me puzzled until I saw a photo - they bolted on underneath the glove box in front of the front seat passenger. Must've confused the Western Australians at the time!
Incidentally, what you US'ns call the trunk is what we call the boot.
By golly - we've come a long way from the taste of water on this one!! Sorry Xara.
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By golly - we've come a long way from the taste of water on this one!! Sorry Xara.Yes, we see your crocodile tears. Pretty subtle dig, that. The back of a station wagon is just that - the back! Exactly. Thank you. And, one puts things ON trays. One puts things IN the back of the UV, the station wagon, or in the bed of a truck. [Throwing down the gauntlet e.]
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To my amazement, "bull bars" can be had in the US. An ad with picture may be seen at: http://ustruckaccessorieswhse.com/wes-main.htmlI can't understand any objection to them as presenting any additional hazard to victims of collision.
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(May as well get in a spot of Kiwi bashing to make it worthwhile).....Jest another example of NZ not being able to survive without Australia around to prop it up folks.Oooooo, an invitation, an invitation! Just love 'em! We don't call them "roo bars" in Zild. They're "bull bars". And because we don't (in common with the rest of the world, note) have that many loose bulls around, it's actually short for "bullsh*t bars". In other words, they're used to ward off errant Striners staggering back to their hotels/motels/doss houses/park benches from the pub any night of the week. Thanks Stales, I owe you one!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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To my amazement, "bull bars" can be had in the US.
To your amazement? Bill, when SWMBO and I travelled across the States a couple of months ago, we saw the largest, fanciest and most ultimately useless sets of bullbars imaginable to man. And that was on every second damned ute we passed. Complete with longhorn skull and horns in a couple of memorable cases. If I hadn't been driving and had my camera ready, I could have enlightened you even further ....
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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they dramatically increased the injuries of a pedestrian involved in a collision with a car with bull bars fitted.
One of the Great Conundrums of Modern Life; by making our vehicles safer we make them more dangerous.
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I response to original taste/flavour question... I think the difference may be in the way we use them.
I find I use flavour is most often used in two ways:
1) when describing the quality of what is being eaten. "it has a flavour reminiscent of cloves and thyme."
2) as a verb to signifying to add more taste or to season some food. "flavour a broth with cloves to make it a hearty and rich"
It is usually used in a positive sense. If it has a flavour, it’s good. Taste, on the other hand can be good or bad. Usually if something has a bad flavour we’ll say “this tastes bad.”
I don’t know if this helps you xara. My dictionary doesn’t make it any clearer as both words are used to describe the other.
(also, just to muddy the waters a little bit more, in my business, when we design a foam bath or shampoo, we create flavours instead of scents or aromas – I have NO idea why this is)
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In the final analysis, Zara, there is only one difference between "taste" and "flavor" (or "flavour" as those of us outside the U.S. spell it). "Taste" can be used metaphorically, as in: "She has great taste in clothing." "Flavor" does not have the same versatility. One cannot have great "flavor" in clothing, unless, of course, the clothing is woven with cotton candy.
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called "bull bars" in the UK. ... they became a little less fashionable when it was shown that they dramatically increased the injuries of a pedestrian involved in a collision with a car with bull bars fitted.i would call them cattle guards, and i can vouch for that statement about pedestrian collisions from person experience 
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plutarch,
i don't know about that. you wouldn't have flavour in your choice of clothing, but you might have flavour in your life if you lead a very interresting one.
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Yes, and you can have a flavouring of romance, as well, I concede. Maybe these flavour/taste metaphors, so different from one another, can help us to distinguish their forebears. Interesting, is it not, that words which are interchangeable when employed literally are not interchangeable when employed metaphorically?
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(also, just to muddy the waters a little bit more, in my business, when we design a foam bath or shampoo, we create flavours instead of scents or aromas – I have NO idea why this is)
I've always used the word flavour to describe scented products. In fact, my husband is terribly allergic to anything scented, so we live in a scent-free household these days. However, when we're at the store and trying to choose between, say, "Sensitive skin Dove" and "Unscented Dove" I will ask him which flavour it is that he uses. Somehow the word fits the situation better. It's not just about the scent, it's the whole product - the texture, consistency, feel of it, as well as the smell. Like a flavour of ice cream, for example - it's not just defined by the smell. So we talk about flavours (or non-flavours, really) of soap and shampoo and deodorant in my house.
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words which are interchangeable when employed literally are not interchangeable when employed metaphorically
Welcome, Pluto. Surely most language often takes a different flavour depending on context? And BTW, I bet some of your favourite bidding gadgets would seem off-flavour to me tho' be tasty little morsels to you!
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WWH re: the "bull bar" url you supplied. Could I just say.... That's not a bull bar.......this is a bull bar: http://www.arb.com.au/ARB_Toyota_bull bars.htm (Look at the photos for the Lancruiser 75, 78 & 79 series - note the side rails as well). The US accessory in the pic is what we'd call a nudge bar. It's my personal preference to use "roo bar" for a light duty (often aluminium) affair installed as a replacement for a vehicle's standard front bumper. A bull bar on the other hand I reserve for the bloody great steel fabrications in the photos above. They're bolted to the chassis rails and sitting up to a foot forward of the grille. There's often a winch mounted in its base, a spare battery, 20 litre "jerry cans" of water and or diesel, spotlights, VHF antenna mount and sometimes a metalworking vise for those emergency repairs!! And of course - somewhere to hang the water bag! Serious items of kit - and dynamite on pedestrians, be they two or four legged. stales
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Dr Bill:
When I was a kid, we had a lister bag that we filled with water and suspended in front of the air intake grille on our car. It was made of very tightly woven canvas, and just wept water slowly through the pores. The air rushing through the grille evaporated the water and cooled the contents of the bag quite a bit. Down to around 45 or so, which is pretty darned cold on a 90 degree day. I've always assumed that Lister was either the brand name or the inventor.
Here in the Denver area the temp difference would probably be even higher than it was in humid Virginia.
TdE
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a variant that requires no trenches to be dug
There seems to be a visual aspect to them; in Arizona they had some that were merely painted on the roadway.
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There was a joke during Prohibition about the bootlegger who got so proud of his beer that he sent a sample to a testing laboratory, and got back a report: "Dear Sir: Your horse has diabetes."
I don't exactly get it. Were horses involved in beer making, or was it just bad?
(Hey, they used radiators.)
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Cattle GRIDS in Oz.
I once saw a queue of sheep on one side of a grid, taking it in turn to jump across! They did it easily. Must admit, the scene did have a "Far Side-esque" look about it.
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Wordwind, stop, you're cracking me up, between Thfortunecookie and those ol' goats leaping to such heights to get at sweet young things.... On second thought, don't stop; just give me a minute to catch my breath... =========================================================== I once saw a queue of sheep on one side of a grid, taking it in turn to jump stales, how many did you count, before you fell asleep?
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>I can't understand any objection to them as presenting any additional hazard to victims of collision. An article for you Dr Bill. http://www.motherjones.com/news_wire/bullbars.htmlI particularly liked the quote: "Nonetheless, in North America, the potential danger posed by bull bars has so far drawn little attention. Part of the reason is that the US and Canada have fewer pedestrians than the UK."I see what they are saying but I had the strange idea that we were all pedestrians at some point, they obviously have invented total drive to the door shopping and working in the USA .. no, on second thoughts maybe they have .. next research - obesity and exercise?
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I had a 1968 Dodge van once that had the Mexican version of "bull bars", a 4"thick steel bar, front and back bumper. Once, backing up in the rain, I demolished the back passenger door of my Mother's brand new Lincoln. Ouch! And, while waiting in line at the International bridge in Juarez, I rolled into a Toyota Corolla. Poor taillights never knew what hit them. I don't have any vehicles with bull bars anymore. No profit in it.
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Cattle GRIDS in Oz.
and down here, too, stales. But of course being a nation of tenderhearts, we build escape ramps for the hedgehogs and other small wildlife to escape from the pit....
Around here, the truly athletic critters are the Welsh mountain sheep - completely mad and fearless. They are brought down from the wilderness areas of their summer grazing for soft winter tack, and evidently can't believe their luck. I nearly drove off the road a while ago at the surprise of seeing a sheep balancing (all four pointy little feet together) on top of a fence post, looking at me as if to say "You lookin' at ME..?"
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a sheep balancing (all four pointy little feet together) on top of a fence post, looking at me as if to say "You lookin' at ME..?"
You have GOT to be kidding me!...aren't you?
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well, OK, it didn't have a very good De Niro accent, but hey...
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Hi, JimTD!
It figures that a post I reply to has to do with horse pee! My humor tends toward the bodily and the bathroom on occasion! But, the thought I had when I read the description, of "Sir, your horse has diabetes" was, the beer tasted like horse urine with sugar!
Speaking of horse, I just finished a Pat Conroy novel and came across a lovely phrase that I had never heard before...."let's make like horsesh*t and hit the trail!"
I had a good laugh over this, and vowed that if I use it in public it will be "make like road apples and hit the trail."
Cheers!
Marigold (need to read the info and learn how to do fun things like faces and colors!)
Marigold
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I like the flavor=good/taste=good or bad distinction, but I would add that "flavor" has a slightly euphemistic quality for me. Something described as "x flavored" may not come within shouting distance of "tasting like x" -- "Cherry (or Grape) flavored" medicines and sugar-based drinks like Kool-Aid, f'rinstance.
Comedian Denis Leary used to do a bit on NyQuil -- a popular and powerful cold/flu remedy. Back when other brands were trotting out all sorts of "flavors" that still tasted nasty, he loved that NyQuil stuck to its original "Green Death Flavor," as he called it. It also comes in nasty-tasting "Cherry" now.
I read a sci-fi novel years ago that was set in the not-too-distant future and featured a protagonist who was fond of "purple-flavored" breakfast cereal.
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NY is home to the IFF-- International Flavor and Fragrance -- they produce, test, market flavoring agents.. and well as test product for flavor and (and taste) since taste buds can only taste, salt, sweet, sour and bitter, everything else is aromatic flavor.. sensed by the nose.. (which is why, when you have a cold, food is often "tasteless") In a HS bio class, we were fed apples and raw potato's --blindfolded, and with nose clips on.. you can't tell the difference between the two. all of the apple taste is aroma or fragrance-- plus sweetness and crunchiness-- which a potato also has.
and as for tasting purple, i don't know if there is such a taste- but red, green and yellow exist at flavors..
red is spicey, and some what hot on the tongue. where as green is cool, and fresh, and yellow is fruity..
and the difference between kool-ade and other better tasting flavors is time and money. artifical flavors don't have to be bad-- but good flavors, like good perfumes, are much more expensive. and in some cases, it just doesn't matter.. the chemicals that are the active ingredients give NyQuil its "green death flavor" and there is not much you can do to change that.. flavoring agents just mask it. no amount of money or effort could make it taste good.. so a "one note" cherry is as good as it gets.-- and thats not to good.
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I read a sci-fi novel years ago that was set in the not-too-distant future and featured a protagonist who was fond of "purple-flavored" breakfast cereal.
Gisting a short sci-fi story (or a very long pun), also focusing on food:
On a far-future human-inhabited planet, the culinary art is deemed by far the highest art form, the acme of which is an annual planet-wide competition. Past winners are revered, and their creations immortalized, like the heroes of sport or myth. Since all food is synthetic, this competition is chemical as much as culinary, as the chef's struggle each year to develop new and proprietary flavorings.
The protagonist emerges as the stunningly unexpected victor in the annual contest, his dish wholley novel, his flavoring completely unique, representing a breakthrough such as occurs but once a century.
But "all heck breaks loose" when it is discovered that his new secret ingredient is garlic -- that is, a substance which to everyone's utter disgust and revulsion actual grows in dirt. What a revolting, literally nauseating thought: to have actually put something like that in one's mouth!
The protagonist is exiled from the planet in disgrace. For as the final sentence of the story states, his actions were simply not in good taste.
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Keiva, that was perfectly dreadful! I loved it! You're giving Ted and Geoff a run for their money in shaggy dog stories. (By the way, guys, any time you want to write more, I'm game to read 'em.)
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well, OK, it didn't have a very good De Niro accent, but hey...
And it was safe from stray Welshmen, too, no?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Hey, CK--beat you by five hundredths of a second. Nyah... Nice dig, by the way. Good thing mav isn't Welsh.
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I can tell the other USn's here that roo bars are necessary Down Under. Fifteen years or so ago I was on an overnight bus trip from Adelaide up to Broken Hill, sitting directly behind the driver. I was dozing when there was a thump that awakened several people ont he bus. The driver explained that he'd just whacked (at 100 kph or so) the biggest roo I've ever hit. When we got to the next stop, I took a look at the roo bar. It was a set of very heavy chromed steel tuves, and two of them had been bent back at least three inches by the impact. Lord knows what kind of damage we'd have had to the bus if it weren't for the roo bars.
By the bye, deer cause more human deaths in the US than any other species of animals, due to road collisions. I know a woman who hit an elk here in Colorado last year; the collision totalled her car but no one in the car was hurt. When they got to looking around the scene they discovered the elk had gotten up and wandered away.
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I don;t know about climbing to great h8eights, but in my younger days I'd go to great length to get at sweet young things (and none of them would leave, he said boastfully.)
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Dear Wordwind: Since none of our Latin experts have answered you, I went into Internet to check my spelling, and found this:Lector: Hoc est dictum hodiernum: De gustibus non est disputandum.
This is the saying for today: Matters of taste are not to be quarreled about. But the really learned enjoy tormenting those who have forgotten their Latin by just saying "De gustibus....and all that."
So the esthetes rather than quarreling about food, just bolster their standing as wine snob and gourmet by mentioning far away restaurants and wine cellars. Deliver me from them O Lord! I have no desire to belong to Les Amis d'Escoffier.
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1. De gustibus semper disputandum est.
2. De saporibus semper disputandum est.
3. De saporibus non disputandum est.
The following in honor of the 70th birthday of Winnie Ille Pu:
4. De heffalumpibus semper dubitandum est.
5. De gradiis semper dubitandum est.
POST EDIT
I originally wrote above that it's the 75th birthday of Pu and then changed it. I was right the first time; it is 75.
BUT: There's another anniversary to mark: MOnday Oct. 15 is the 50th anniversary of the first I Love Lucy show. Even more amusing and will certainly be as long-lived as Pu.
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BobY, you might be a latin scholar but its greek to me. Care to translate? I do have one question for you animus revertendi, so to speak. Is it true that there are latin roots in Russian (as well as english, french, spanish and portuguese)?
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Plutarch, no. 1 is the corrected form of what WW was quoting, 2 & 3 what was asked for. 4 & 5 are quotes from Winnie Ille Pu, the Latin translation of the Milne classic. 4 is "You never can tell about elephants", 5 "You never can tell about footprints" (literally, "about elephants, footprints, it is always to be doubted").
The construction "disputandum, dubitandum" is called a gerund, q.v. in a dictionary or grammar.
I do not know about Latin roots in Russian, as I am not a Russian scholar; perhaps someone who is can respond to this. English has Latin words, phrases and other expressions which have been imported whole into the language, but not a direct connection. English was originally a Germanic language, expanded after the Norman Conquest with a vocabulary from Norman French, which, like other varieties of French, is a descendent of Latin.
The Romance Languages -- Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Rumanian, and a variety of lesser-known languages such as Romansch, Catalan, Provençal et al. and their dialects and variants -- do not just have Latin roots; they are the descendants of Latin. That means that sometime after the 3rd century or so, regional variants began creeping into the Latin spoken all over the (then dying) Roman Empire. The process accelerated after the fall of the Empire, so that what used to be Latin spoken in what used to be Gaul was starting to evolve into what became French, of either the Lange d'Ouil (northern) variety or the Langue d'Oc (southern) variety; the Latin of Hibernia slowly turned into Spanish, etc.
Exactly how and when all these languages morphed from Latin into the Romance family of languages is not very clearly known, as it took place during the Dark Ages, which are so called because there are so few records of it. In the case of Italian and French, the process was virtually complete by the early 14th century, since what Dante, Bocaccio, and Villon wrote was Italian and French (archaic still, with some more modernization to come but comprehensible to speakers of modern Italian or French, like Elizabethan English is to us).
Late edit. Dr. Bill very kindly pointed out to me in a p.m. that I wrote Hibernia above when I meant Iberia. Chalk that up not to ignorance of geography but to getting old. Eheu fugaces! as the old Romans used to say. These golden years are not what they are cracked up to be. Made another error the same day in another post, which I'll have to fix.
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Speaking of critters falling into ponds....I believe that, whilst it doesn't get much publicity, a huge number of pet dogs drown each year in private swimming pools - an order of magnitude more than the chidren that do.
A 3 year old girl drowned in the family pool in Brisbane this week - very sad. Didn't find her for 24 hours, until the 3rd time they checked the pool (winter here so not in use)
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what sort of pit are the little creatures breaking away from?
Taking your q at face value rather than hippoperbole, the normal pattern of cattle grids here features a pit around 2' deep beneath the grid - without salvation, small critters can perish in this chasmic prison.
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5 "You never can tell about footprints" (literally, "about elephants, footprints, it is always to be doubted").
I thoght we settled that several months ago!
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Has anyone cross-threaded to hippo-chick? (a well dressed hippo chick being hippo-chic)
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Hippo-chic--hey, that's getting pretty close to Hyla-chic. Hiya, Hyla! You are chic, but not a chick, non?
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To Dub-Dub (ROTFL) -- Aquadon't! Laughing so hard my sides are aquing!
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Here's a thread from another board about Egeria, a 4th or 5th century travel writer whose Latin was well on the way to becoming something else. http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=2318.1 Bingley
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How I got from the games into town during the last Japanese winter Olympics
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No, no, Ted--wasn't that sap onabus?
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Sorry about that Max. They seem to have changed their forum entry requirements. They used to be more public. Here is a link to another page about Egeria, although this one plays down the differences between Egeria's language and Classical Latin emphasised in the other reference: http://www.owu.edu/~o5medww/egeria/In the ancient history's public area they have an article this week about the etymology of geometrical terms. The article itself is pretty basic but some of the links look interesting. http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa030601a.htm And for our young canine, they have a list of distance learning Latin courses (some online) http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/correspcourses/index.htm Bingley
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I checked the last of the url 's Bingley cited. Its content is typified by the following, its first clickable entry (emphasis added): Scientific Greek and Latin / Study of scientific and technical terminology derived from Greek and Latin, with primary emphasis on medical language and terminology. (For UNL students, this course does not apply to the liberal education requirements in the College of Arts and Sciences.) / 4 assignments, 2 examinations / Syllabus $23 / McCulloch, J. A. A Medical Greek and Latin Workbook. Charles C. Thomas, 1984 $45 / Tuition: $230.00 / Materials: $68.00
I am not offended. But to those who took violent offense at a like course-announcement, made by goldibear: is your position, in this thread, consistent?
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yeahbut.®
Probably lots (like me) will have not had their face rubbed in it, because we did not pursue it unless specifically interested. For me, it's the difference of being told in conversation about an interesting book with the publishing details being included, compared to the rabid marketeers' ravings of the Book of the Month Clueless Club Clan.
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it's the difference of being told in conversation about an interesting book with the publishing details being included, compared to the rabid marketeers' ravings of the Book of the Month Clueless Club Clan.
So you're saying it's OK to continue a thread but not to start one.
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Mav, Faldage, thank you for helping to separate out two separate questions that had become tangled.
One is the question of the propriety/impropriety of an announcement such as goldibear's. It is good of you to put your discussion here, as above, to help keep it unentangled with the other question.
The second question -- the propriety/impropriety of the responses made to such impropriety as goldibear committed -- can productively continue, separately, in the "course announcement" thread, so that the two issues do not become confused.
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Well, I'm sorry if anyone was offended. I simply saw the list of courses and thought "Jacobus Canis might be interested in these". To be honest, I didn't follow any of the links myself but I can't say I'm shocked to hear that people are charging for courses.
In my own defence, I will say, I think there's a difference between saying "Here is a directory of courses" to someone who has expressed an interest in such a course and saying "Roll up, roll up, come to my course."
Bingley
Bingley
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Bingley, you do understand, I trust, that I don't see anything the least bit offensive in your post. I was asking whether anyone offended by goldi's should (IMHO) consider whether his/her reactions are inconsistent. But for that substantive question raised, I would have filled my post with ironic smile icons. (BTW: "Jacobus Canus"? Loved it!)
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I've been watching this one with interest, although I had not contributed until now. But now my dander's up, so here goes: First of all, I think that the treatment of Goldibear was needlessly harsh. In fact it was shameful. It looked like the kind of abuse I came to this forum to get away from. Consider this: she was offering a course in Atlanta. She wasn't trying to sell you all something over the Internet, present your credit card and it will arrive in four to six weeks. The only known Atlantan on the Board was AnnaS, and we all know that she's skipped town for the more interesting climes of Ithaca. Secondly, we all sometimes post a URL to something interesting which may or may not contain advertisements. This is never an invitation to buy someone's product. It's usually information offered as part of a reply to a question, or it seemed to the poster that the information at the link would be interesting to everyone. Are the fanatics amongst you now saying that this is not acceptable? Get a life!  I think those of you who want to be PC police should consider what you're doing. And how you're doing it.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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rabid marketeers' ravingsMav, in the last few days (and somewhat to my bemusement! ) I've found myself repeatedly agreeing with your posts -- and I hope I've had the grace to say so. On this one, I agree with your general principle completely. I don't understand you to say that that principle applied in the goldie case (that is, that goldie was "rabidly raving"). You're dealing with the more important, general case.
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Yes, quite right Keiva - I don't happen to take exception to goldibear-faced cheek, and basically agree with you too CK. But I can also see there needs to be a line drawn somewhere which I guess is what those of our brethrennsistren were seeking to protect. Otherwise, is it going to be par for the course to have to pick our way through ads for (other doubtless worthy) product offerings in these columns? ~ I'd regret that.
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FYI to Keiva--re your PM i went back and edited my post
I was mildly upset by goldibears ad. this is a dot org, not a dot com.. i don't think our response was rabid. in a lot of bulliten boards, there would have been an all out effort to flame.. and to post her email address on an other bulletin board, inviting millions of other to bomb her mail box.. this is pretty standard response on many, many bulliten boards... we, by contrast, were very mild-- both in our behaviour and in our words.
What i was very upset by was her response.. For future reference... (in other words, when i do this the next time...!) our response was mild enough not to have detered her!
there is a big difference between using this board to place an ad, (goldibear), giving a plug to a commerical company, (TEd) and referering to a commercial company in passing, (Bingley). No body got bent out of shape then Xara asked where can i buy "Harry Potter" books... and there were replies that included links to commercial sites. we don't pretend to live in a world that doesn't include commercial activity. (and i didn't mind, when someone sent me a very nice, very comforting email, obviously from their work site that included a link to the company web site as a signature file. I think i would mind, it i got the same as signature file here, or in a PM from here!)
Goldibear asked rhetoricaly, if i were selling dictionaries for a $1, should i tell you? well, the standard price for soft cover edition of a dictionary is $1 on the streets of NY.. and i expect the sellers make money.. so the answer to goldibear is, If you are buying dictionaries wholesale for $0.75, and coming here to hawk them them for $1, the answer is again NO. This is not a dot com site.
There is a place for ads.. Anu is looking for sponsers. (ie people who pay a fee to be able to read a select (us!) audience.) No one objects to the sponsers in the newsletter. Goldibear has the Newsletter as an option, and lots of other options, with out subverting this forum for her own personal use.
there are plenty of dot coms around.. i want to go shopping, i know how to find ads, and places to spend my money.
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For future reference...
So what's *this all about, Helen? Are we not supposed to read it because it was a reply to Keiva's PM to you? Why not just send it PM to Keiva?
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c'mon, F, Helen musta jess fergat ter put the white outen after the fuss line
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Well, lessee [white]arga warga[blue] Auntie [/blue] we still here?[/white]
How about that! Let that be a lesson to all you strangers and newbies. Preview, preview, preview!
Does that mean I can read it? An whurat do I start?
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for future reference
is from goldibear's response.. she posed the question, and addressed it to tsumw and Jazzo,
the first line of the post is refers to a private chasting i got from Keiva..(which i reluctantly admit i deserved) since there hasn't been too much new in thread since then, and he might have missed my edit.
EDITReally, honestly, truly, i did not see the problem at my desk at work... i don't know why, but it wasn't all white.. i just changed it now..
its been a bad day.. all of my brain cells are fried -- its not that i can't sleep, its just my sleep cycle is off.. i can't get to sleep at my normal time, i wake up at 5, and then just begin to doze again as the alarm goes off at 6.. so i am always tired..
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Keiva, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Nobody, unless I am misreading any posts after Bingley’s, has voiced any objections. The only thing I see is you going on about goldibear.
You say: I am not offended. But to those who took violent offense at a like course-announcement, made by goldibear: is your position, in this thread, consistent?
And: I was asking whether anyone offended by goldi's should (IMHO) consider whether his/her reactions are inconsistent.
Where did this happen?
You wrote a post to Helen chastising her...well good for you. Now what do you want to do, embarrass her in public. I don’t get it.
Is it inconceivable to you that some people want to avoid having to filter through ads to get to AWAD chat? Is it so hard to understand the distinction between bringing up a piece of information, or linking to a url, for people’s edification...and that of someone blatantly advertising a service for his/her own monetary gain.
I know, and agree, that some reactions were harsh in goldibear’s thread. And it was brought up in that thread...why do you keep harping on it in other threads.
Are you going to bring it up *every time somebody brings up an interesting bit of information or url?
Get over it for heaven’s sake. And if you really want to continue, go in goldibear thread instead of hijacking some other one.
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please be mindful of the bits of egg all about, i am still scrapping off my face.
1) Keiva was not out of line when he chastized me. i was wrong (egg #1)
2) I did preview, and i did review my post again, when faldage made comment. but it was not all white from my view. I don't know why, but it wasn't.. i often don't have a problem with posts going wide, when every one else is moaning and groaning.. and i never lost my R's (i just trip, rs over tea kettle!)( so that egg #2)
and yes, all of the post can be read.. and its been re edited, since the problem became clear or should i say, white, once i checked it from my home. (egg #3)
now, if you don't mind, i'll leave the room, my face is more or less cleared, and i have sweep up the mess to the best of my ability.. if there is any egg left over, its my fault..
[how do i exit gracefully icon]
[how do i ever come back here icon, with out being extremely self conscious? icon]
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bel, may I suggest that your post is quite inaccurate, and that you may want to review the record again and then edit as you see fit? Accordingly, I shall defer for a while. Thank you.
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In reply to:
Bingley, you do understand, I trust, that I don't see anything the least bit offensive in your post.
Um, yes.  Looking at it the next day, I realise I should have included the [flared nostrils], [tossed head], and [stamped foot] icons. It was supposed to be a mild send up of what seemed to me to be something of an over-reaction to Goldibear's post. I agree she was out of line, but I don't think she deserved what she got.
Bingley
Bingley
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exactly -- but mea culpa also. I should have realized that the subject is so sensitive that irony might easily be misconstrued.
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I have deleted this post. I realize that it should not have been written in this place. Somewhere where we all come to enjoy ourselves and take refuge from everyday stresses of life.
I apologize to anyone who read it. And I do apologize if I have hurt the feelings of anyone, including you Keiva
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...and farbeit from me to expect anything , but... when I leave this site I just *know I'm "in for it".
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