#43811
10/14/2001 1:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Plutarch, no. 1 is the corrected form of what WW was quoting, 2 & 3 what was asked for. 4 & 5 are quotes from Winnie Ille Pu, the Latin translation of the Milne classic. 4 is "You never can tell about elephants", 5 "You never can tell about footprints" (literally, "about elephants, footprints, it is always to be doubted").
The construction "disputandum, dubitandum" is called a gerund, q.v. in a dictionary or grammar.
I do not know about Latin roots in Russian, as I am not a Russian scholar; perhaps someone who is can respond to this. English has Latin words, phrases and other expressions which have been imported whole into the language, but not a direct connection. English was originally a Germanic language, expanded after the Norman Conquest with a vocabulary from Norman French, which, like other varieties of French, is a descendent of Latin.
The Romance Languages -- Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Rumanian, and a variety of lesser-known languages such as Romansch, Catalan, Provençal et al. and their dialects and variants -- do not just have Latin roots; they are the descendants of Latin. That means that sometime after the 3rd century or so, regional variants began creeping into the Latin spoken all over the (then dying) Roman Empire. The process accelerated after the fall of the Empire, so that what used to be Latin spoken in what used to be Gaul was starting to evolve into what became French, of either the Lange d'Ouil (northern) variety or the Langue d'Oc (southern) variety; the Latin of Hibernia slowly turned into Spanish, etc.
Exactly how and when all these languages morphed from Latin into the Romance family of languages is not very clearly known, as it took place during the Dark Ages, which are so called because there are so few records of it. In the case of Italian and French, the process was virtually complete by the early 14th century, since what Dante, Bocaccio, and Villon wrote was Italian and French (archaic still, with some more modernization to come but comprehensible to speakers of modern Italian or French, like Elizabethan English is to us).
Late edit. Dr. Bill very kindly pointed out to me in a p.m. that I wrote Hibernia above when I meant Iberia. Chalk that up not to ignorance of geography but to getting old. Eheu fugaces! as the old Romans used to say. These golden years are not what they are cracked up to be. Made another error the same day in another post, which I'll have to fix.
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#43812
10/14/2001 3:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Speaking of critters falling into ponds....I believe that, whilst it doesn't get much publicity, a huge number of pet dogs drown each year in private swimming pools - an order of magnitude more than the chidren that do.
A 3 year old girl drowned in the family pool in Brisbane this week - very sad. Didn't find her for 24 hours, until the 3rd time they checked the pool (winter here so not in use)
stales
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#43813
10/14/2001 9:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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#43814
10/14/2001 1:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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what sort of pit are the little creatures breaking away from?
Taking your q at face value rather than hippoperbole, the normal pattern of cattle grids here features a pit around 2' deep beneath the grid - without salvation, small critters can perish in this chasmic prison.
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#43815
10/14/2001 2:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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5 "You never can tell about footprints" (literally, "about elephants, footprints, it is always to be doubted").
I thoght we settled that several months ago!
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#43816
10/14/2001 3:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#43817
10/14/2001 3:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Has anyone cross-threaded to hippo-chick? (a well dressed hippo chick being hippo-chic) 
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#43818
10/14/2001 4:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hippo-chic--hey, that's getting pretty close to Hyla-chic. Hiya, Hyla! You are chic, but not a chick, non?
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#43819
10/14/2001 4:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#43820
10/14/2001 7:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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To Dub-Dub (ROTFL) -- Aquadon't! Laughing so hard my sides are aquing!
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#43821
10/15/2001 7:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Here's a thread from another board about Egeria, a 4th or 5th century travel writer whose Latin was well on the way to becoming something else. http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=2318.1 Bingley
Bingley
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#43822
10/15/2001 7:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#43823
10/15/2001 4:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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How I got from the games into town during the last Japanese winter Olympics
TEd
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#43824
10/16/2001 12:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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No, no, Ted--wasn't that sap onabus?
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#43825
10/17/2001 5:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
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Sorry about that Max. They seem to have changed their forum entry requirements. They used to be more public. Here is a link to another page about Egeria, although this one plays down the differences between Egeria's language and Classical Latin emphasised in the other reference: http://www.owu.edu/~o5medww/egeria/In the ancient history's public area they have an article this week about the etymology of geometrical terms. The article itself is pretty basic but some of the links look interesting. http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa030601a.htm And for our young canine, they have a list of distance learning Latin courses (some online) http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/correspcourses/index.htm Bingley
Bingley
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#43826
10/17/2001 11:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
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I checked the last of the url 's Bingley cited. Its content is typified by the following, its first clickable entry (emphasis added): Scientific Greek and Latin / Study of scientific and technical terminology derived from Greek and Latin, with primary emphasis on medical language and terminology. (For UNL students, this course does not apply to the liberal education requirements in the College of Arts and Sciences.) / 4 assignments, 2 examinations / Syllabus $23 / McCulloch, J. A. A Medical Greek and Latin Workbook. Charles C. Thomas, 1984 $45 / Tuition: $230.00 / Materials: $68.00
I am not offended. But to those who took violent offense at a like course-announcement, made by goldibear: is your position, in this thread, consistent?
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#43827
10/17/2001 2:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
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yeahbut.®
Probably lots (like me) will have not had their face rubbed in it, because we did not pursue it unless specifically interested. For me, it's the difference of being told in conversation about an interesting book with the publishing details being included, compared to the rabid marketeers' ravings of the Book of the Month Clueless Club Clan.
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#43828
10/17/2001 3:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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it's the difference of being told in conversation about an interesting book with the publishing details being included, compared to the rabid marketeers' ravings of the Book of the Month Clueless Club Clan.
So you're saying it's OK to continue a thread but not to start one.
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#43829
10/17/2001 3:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
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Mav, Faldage, thank you for helping to separate out two separate questions that had become tangled.
One is the question of the propriety/impropriety of an announcement such as goldibear's. It is good of you to put your discussion here, as above, to help keep it unentangled with the other question.
The second question -- the propriety/impropriety of the responses made to such impropriety as goldibear committed -- can productively continue, separately, in the "course announcement" thread, so that the two issues do not become confused.
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#43830
10/18/2001 6:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Well, I'm sorry if anyone was offended. I simply saw the list of courses and thought "Jacobus Canis might be interested in these". To be honest, I didn't follow any of the links myself but I can't say I'm shocked to hear that people are charging for courses.
In my own defence, I will say, I think there's a difference between saying "Here is a directory of courses" to someone who has expressed an interest in such a course and saying "Roll up, roll up, come to my course."
Bingley
Bingley
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#43831
10/18/2001 10:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
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Bingley, you do understand, I trust, that I don't see anything the least bit offensive in your post. I was asking whether anyone offended by goldi's should (IMHO) consider whether his/her reactions are inconsistent. But for that substantive question raised, I would have filled my post with ironic smile icons. (BTW: "Jacobus Canus"? Loved it!)
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#43832
10/18/2001 10:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I've been watching this one with interest, although I had not contributed until now. But now my dander's up, so here goes: First of all, I think that the treatment of Goldibear was needlessly harsh. In fact it was shameful. It looked like the kind of abuse I came to this forum to get away from. Consider this: she was offering a course in Atlanta. She wasn't trying to sell you all something over the Internet, present your credit card and it will arrive in four to six weeks. The only known Atlantan on the Board was AnnaS, and we all know that she's skipped town for the more interesting climes of Ithaca. Secondly, we all sometimes post a URL to something interesting which may or may not contain advertisements. This is never an invitation to buy someone's product. It's usually information offered as part of a reply to a question, or it seemed to the poster that the information at the link would be interesting to everyone. Are the fanatics amongst you now saying that this is not acceptable? Get a life!  I think those of you who want to be PC police should consider what you're doing. And how you're doing it. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#43833
10/18/2001 10:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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rabid marketeers' ravingsMav, in the last few days (and somewhat to my bemusement! ) I've found myself repeatedly agreeing with your posts -- and I hope I've had the grace to say so. On this one, I agree with your general principle completely. I don't understand you to say that that principle applied in the goldie case (that is, that goldie was "rabidly raving"). You're dealing with the more important, general case.
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#43834
10/18/2001 12:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
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Yes, quite right Keiva - I don't happen to take exception to goldibear-faced cheek, and basically agree with you too CK. But I can also see there needs to be a line drawn somewhere which I guess is what those of our brethrennsistren were seeking to protect. Otherwise, is it going to be par for the course to have to pick our way through ads for (other doubtless worthy) product offerings in these columns? ~ I'd regret that.
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#43835
10/18/2001 1:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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FYI to Keiva--re your PM i went back and edited my post
I was mildly upset by goldibears ad. this is a dot org, not a dot com.. i don't think our response was rabid. in a lot of bulliten boards, there would have been an all out effort to flame.. and to post her email address on an other bulletin board, inviting millions of other to bomb her mail box.. this is pretty standard response on many, many bulliten boards... we, by contrast, were very mild-- both in our behaviour and in our words.
What i was very upset by was her response.. For future reference... (in other words, when i do this the next time...!) our response was mild enough not to have detered her!
there is a big difference between using this board to place an ad, (goldibear), giving a plug to a commerical company, (TEd) and referering to a commercial company in passing, (Bingley). No body got bent out of shape then Xara asked where can i buy "Harry Potter" books... and there were replies that included links to commercial sites. we don't pretend to live in a world that doesn't include commercial activity. (and i didn't mind, when someone sent me a very nice, very comforting email, obviously from their work site that included a link to the company web site as a signature file. I think i would mind, it i got the same as signature file here, or in a PM from here!)
Goldibear asked rhetoricaly, if i were selling dictionaries for a $1, should i tell you? well, the standard price for soft cover edition of a dictionary is $1 on the streets of NY.. and i expect the sellers make money.. so the answer to goldibear is, If you are buying dictionaries wholesale for $0.75, and coming here to hawk them them for $1, the answer is again NO. This is not a dot com site.
There is a place for ads.. Anu is looking for sponsers. (ie people who pay a fee to be able to read a select (us!) audience.) No one objects to the sponsers in the newsletter. Goldibear has the Newsletter as an option, and lots of other options, with out subverting this forum for her own personal use.
there are plenty of dot coms around.. i want to go shopping, i know how to find ads, and places to spend my money.
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#43836
10/18/2001 1:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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For future reference...
So what's *this all about, Helen? Are we not supposed to read it because it was a reply to Keiva's PM to you? Why not just send it PM to Keiva?
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#43837
10/18/2001 1:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
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c'mon, F, Helen musta jess fergat ter put the white outen after the fuss line
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#43838
10/18/2001 1:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Well, lessee [white]arga warga[blue] Auntie [/blue] we still here?[/white]
How about that! Let that be a lesson to all you strangers and newbies. Preview, preview, preview!
Does that mean I can read it? An whurat do I start?
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#43839
10/18/2001 1:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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for future reference
is from goldibear's response.. she posed the question, and addressed it to tsumw and Jazzo,
the first line of the post is refers to a private chasting i got from Keiva..(which i reluctantly admit i deserved) since there hasn't been too much new in thread since then, and he might have missed my edit.
EDITReally, honestly, truly, i did not see the problem at my desk at work... i don't know why, but it wasn't all white.. i just changed it now..
its been a bad day.. all of my brain cells are fried -- its not that i can't sleep, its just my sleep cycle is off.. i can't get to sleep at my normal time, i wake up at 5, and then just begin to doze again as the alarm goes off at 6.. so i am always tired..
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#43840
10/18/2001 9:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Keiva, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Nobody, unless I am misreading any posts after Bingley’s, has voiced any objections. The only thing I see is you going on about goldibear.
You say: I am not offended. But to those who took violent offense at a like course-announcement, made by goldibear: is your position, in this thread, consistent?
And: I was asking whether anyone offended by goldi's should (IMHO) consider whether his/her reactions are inconsistent.
Where did this happen?
You wrote a post to Helen chastising her...well good for you. Now what do you want to do, embarrass her in public. I don’t get it.
Is it inconceivable to you that some people want to avoid having to filter through ads to get to AWAD chat? Is it so hard to understand the distinction between bringing up a piece of information, or linking to a url, for people’s edification...and that of someone blatantly advertising a service for his/her own monetary gain.
I know, and agree, that some reactions were harsh in goldibear’s thread. And it was brought up in that thread...why do you keep harping on it in other threads.
Are you going to bring it up *every time somebody brings up an interesting bit of information or url?
Get over it for heaven’s sake. And if you really want to continue, go in goldibear thread instead of hijacking some other one.
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#43841
10/18/2001 10:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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please be mindful of the bits of egg all about, i am still scrapping off my face.
1) Keiva was not out of line when he chastized me. i was wrong (egg #1)
2) I did preview, and i did review my post again, when faldage made comment. but it was not all white from my view. I don't know why, but it wasn't.. i often don't have a problem with posts going wide, when every one else is moaning and groaning.. and i never lost my R's (i just trip, rs over tea kettle!)( so that egg #2)
and yes, all of the post can be read.. and its been re edited, since the problem became clear or should i say, white, once i checked it from my home. (egg #3)
now, if you don't mind, i'll leave the room, my face is more or less cleared, and i have sweep up the mess to the best of my ability.. if there is any egg left over, its my fault..
[how do i exit gracefully icon]
[how do i ever come back here icon, with out being extremely self conscious? icon]
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#43842
10/18/2001 11:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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bel, may I suggest that your post is quite inaccurate, and that you may want to review the record again and then edit as you see fit? Accordingly, I shall defer for a while. Thank you.
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#43843
10/19/2001 4:31 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
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In reply to:
Bingley, you do understand, I trust, that I don't see anything the least bit offensive in your post.
Um, yes.  Looking at it the next day, I realise I should have included the [flared nostrils], [tossed head], and [stamped foot] icons. It was supposed to be a mild send up of what seemed to me to be something of an over-reaction to Goldibear's post. I agree she was out of line, but I don't think she deserved what she got.
Bingley
Bingley
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#43844
10/19/2001 11:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
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exactly -- but mea culpa also. I should have realized that the subject is so sensitive that irony might easily be misconstrued.
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#43845
10/19/2001 8:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
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Carpal Tunnel
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I have deleted this post. I realize that it should not have been written in this place. Somewhere where we all come to enjoy ourselves and take refuge from everyday stresses of life.
I apologize to anyone who read it. And I do apologize if I have hurt the feelings of anyone, including you Keiva
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#43847
10/21/2001 7:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
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...and farbeit from me to expect anything , but... when I leave this site I just *know I'm "in for it".
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