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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 3 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 … 9 10 Re: Gender and Articles #42598 09/26/01 09:30 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 J jmh Pooh-Bah jmh Pooh-Bah J Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,981 >assuming we are roughly contemporaries, you were about 14 years old during that golden era: I have to commend you, you were a far more avid reader than was I. Yes, I'm with inselpeter, if I get his gist, I think that you are thinking of the wrong kind of articles. Come on you guys reading Playboy as a fourteen year old boy, pull the other one! Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: the migratory "n" #42599 09/27/01 03:47 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 I just read the an apron became a napron, which became a napkin part. Actually® it started out as a napron and the n migrated over to the a. A napron is a big one and a napkin is a little one. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Reading Playboy #42600 09/27/01 03:51 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Well, [silent Harrumph®] I, for one, never *read Playboy when I was 14!!! I just looked at the pictures. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: the migratory "n" #42601 09/27/01 04:04 PM Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,605 K Keiva Carpal Tunnel Keiva Carpal Tunnel K Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,605 arpon / napron / napkin Faldage is right - rechecking my source shows that my recall was wrong, but suggests a longer story. My source indicates that English took the Old French word naperon (= "little tablecloth") but used it for the larger covering; later the phrase for that large covering changed from "a napron" to "an apron". That source does not indicate, however, how English got "napkin" for the small covering. Faldage, can you help further? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Helping further #42602 09/27/01 05:05 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 how English got "napkin" for the small covering. I allus thought -on was an augmentive suffix , so I dunno if you're gone believe me. Without consulting the discredited AHD I'd say that the nap part was the root and meant something like hunk of cloth with a protective function against food and the -kin was just the good old English diminutive suffix. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Helping further #42603 09/27/01 06:05 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 544 San Francisco, CA H Hyla addict Hyla addict H Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 544 San Francisco, CA I'm wondering about situations where the gender of a noun changes its meaning or sense. Spanish has a few words that can take either gender in their article. The only one that comes to mind is mar, the word for "sea," which is usually a masculine noun but is sometimes considered a feminine noun when used in more literary language, and in some idiomatic expressions. A twist on this is adjectives that only take one gender's ending - an example being the Italian word figo which means "cool," as in "way cool pocket OED, dude" but is only ever given the masculine ending - ending it in an "a" changes it to a noun, and an obscene anatomical reference at that. Are there cases like this in other languages, where switching the gender can greatly change the meaning? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Helping further #42604 09/27/01 06:34 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 428 Cape Cod, MA, US F Flatlander addict Flatlander addict F Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 428 Cape Cod, MA, US The only one that comes to mind is mar, the word for "sea,"...Are there cases like this in other languages? IIRC, The German word See means "sea" (as in one of the reputed Seven) when it is one gender (masc?) and "the ocean" (as in the one big one) when another (fem?). Can a better German speaker than I confirm/deny this? Jazzo, it was you wot started the thread... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: El vs. La #42605 09/27/01 06:55 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 There's other examples from Spanish but I can't think of any. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: El vs. La #42606 09/27/01 07:03 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 544 San Francisco, CA H Hyla addict Hyla addict H Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 544 San Francisco, CA Faldage's inability to think of another example somehow helped me think of another example: la radio = radio el radio = radius Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Helping further #42607 09/27/01 08:50 PM Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,094 Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U... J Jazzoctopus OP old hand OP Jazzoctopus old hand J Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,094 Cincinnati & Loveland, Ohio, U... The German word See means "sea" (as in one of the reputed Seven) when it is one gender (masc?) and "the ocean" (as in the one big one) when another (fem?). From http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa042098.htm it appears that der See is lake and die See is ocean. 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