|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
WARNING: DIVERGENCE FROM THE MAIN SUBJECT
This discussion of relations brings to mind something interesting which I encounted the other day. Chinese has two different words for "sister-in-law"; one for "wife's older sister" and a different word for "wife's younger sister". Although the article I read didn't say so, I would presume the same applies to brothers-in-law. I am also aware that in a good many languages there are different words for "aunt/uncle on the mother's side" and "aunt/uncle on the father's side" and that there are, even in English, different words for different kinds of cousins. (Cousin-german comes to mind.)
Does this indicate that we English speakers are not as concerned with the niceties of family relationships as other people who need such terms because the intricacies of the family are important? I would imagine that the two different words in Chinese reflect that culture's old-time acknowledgement of rank and position in families as well as in other relationships.
Do any of you have some more instances to share and/or comment on?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Some Indonesian relationship terms:
kakak older sibling
adik younger sibling
Even twins get divided into kakak and adik.
Saudara male relative in the same generation (includes brothers and male cousins)
Saudari female relative in the same generation (includes sisters and female cousins)
Also a term of address used to promote solidarity; not as common as adik and kakak for actual relatives.
bapak and ayah father. I think ayah implies a closer less formal relationship.
ibu mother
bapak and ibu are also used as terms of address, Mr. and Ms.; also seorang bapak a man seorang ibu a woman
orang tua parents (literally old people: in slang abbreviated to ortu)
kakek grandfather
nenek grandmother
also used to mean old man or old woman (also note: nenek moyang the ancestors)
anak child
putra son putri daughter (much less commonly used than anak)
ipar brother or sister in law
menantu son or daugher in law
mertua parent in law
besan son or daughter in law's parent
om or paman uncle (om is also used as a friendly term of address to a man of one's parents' generation)
tante or bibi (again tante is also used as friendly term of address to a woman of one's parents' generation)
keponakan nephew or niece (but unless you were being very precise you would probably call them anak)
sepupu cousin (again you would probably call them kakak or adik)
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
RE:
Saudara male relative in the same generation (includes brothers and male cousins)
Saudari female relative in the same generation (includes sisters and female cousins)
and is there a term for cousin not in the same gereration?
my father's family is 'fractured'-- he was born when his mother was in her 50's, and she was the youngest in her family, so my grandmother was born when her mother (my greatgrand mother) was 48.
the result, many of my father's first cousins were 40+years older than he was. so i have many relatives who are second cousins, once removed.. (they are my age, but i belong with their parent's generation, who are my second cousins.)
it is confusing.. most of us didn't understand how it worked till we were adults.. and it caused some problems, since my mother insisted on no "fake" aunts. So some of my cousins (all with a comman grandmother,) were shocked to her me call their grandmother, Annie.. but she was my first cousin, once removed!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Jackie harrumphs®: I still say it should be parents-in-laws'. Bingley, since you are unsure... the only person whose uncited word I will take is Nicholas'.
And since Nicholas's [sic] word isn't here, I'll leap into the breach: "in-law" is a descriptive, and in English we don't pluralize adjectives. So I go with "parents'-in-law." For analogies, look at "attorneys-general" and "passers-by."
Having said that, I agree the construction is awkward and should be proscribed post-haste.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
and mesomezzomisoneism a tepid dislike for the husky caberet chanteuse? (fr.?)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
ASp:
In speaking the sentence, which would you say:
1. I was at my mother's-in-law house.
2. I was at my mother-in-law's house.
I would always use the second one, never the first. Hmmm. We could recast it. Peggy was at her mom's house. I went along. Or: Peggy wasn't at her mom's house, but I was. (Now, Mrs. Robinson, would you please put that back on!)
TdE
Terrorism delenda est
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I'll take Door Number 2, TEd. So much for grammar. Thanks for the aural outpoint.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
See if this makes sense (and no finger pointing and guffawing if it doesn't 'cause I never claimed to be resident expert, so there)
Can't the whole construction 'mother-in-law' be a noun? The term names one particular person. Without the 'in-law' you are talking about a completely different entity.
I see it the same way I see the term highrise. High is a descriptive but having been joined to rise becomes part of a noun. True the hyphen has been removed but isn't that just a matter of time.
Thus Mother-in-law's house would fit the bill.
Oh wait, I just thougth of the plural. We'd say Mothers-in-law wouldn't we? Ah heck. Colour me clueless again.
I'll stick to "belle-mère / belles-mères". This is the first time I can say it is so much clearer in French.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Actually, I agree with you, Bel. Sorry, Jo, but while the construction of "mother-in-law" is a noun modified by an adjective, the whole shebang is one word albeit with two hyphens, and stands on its own as a noun. Ergo, it has to be mother-in-law's. [Afterthought] Oh shit, I'm in the same country as her now. Why did I do it? Just how far is it from Wellingborough to Edinburgh anyway? I think I'll go and get lost in London tomorrow ... 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
"Okay, let me try this again," she mumbles.
In Spanish:
Cuñado=brother of your spouse
Cuñada=sister of your spouse
Pay attention, this is where it gets tricky-
Concuño=husband of your spouse's sister
Concuña=wife of your spouse's brother
Spanish also has names for the relationship between the parents and the godparents of a child.
Comadre=godmother of your child or mother of your godchild
Compadre=godfather of your child or father of your godchild
¡TA-DA! I have finally taken the time to get the tildes, accents, and punctuations mastered! It's a Wahoo moment.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,651
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
158
guests, and
3
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
