#41261
09/11/2001 1:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
I can't get through to any of the news sites & wire services about the horror story at the WTC - does anyone have news? Is Helen OK?
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#41262
09/11/2001 1:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
One of the towers has collapsed. The Pentagon has also been attacked, or so I hear. I've been able to get news from http://eltiempo.terra.com.co but even they've been giving me connection refused lately. (I just got through again from my preview) We've been watching on TV. It should be localized enough that Helen hasn't been in the line of fire.
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#41263
09/11/2001 1:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#41264
09/11/2001 1:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Where does Helen work?
Bingley
Bingley
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#41265
09/11/2001 1:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,803 |
She works at the EPA. Lemme check see can I find out where that is in NYC
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#41266
09/11/2001 2:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#41267
09/11/2001 2:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
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addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
Helen works at the Environmental Protection Agency but I don't know where the offices are. Another (female, but mey memory has really gone with this lot) boarder works in the EPA as well, but I don't know if that is also in NY.
Fingers crossed.
This is all, all too horrific and too much like the Jack Ryan blockbuster Executive Orders where the terrorists dive an aeroplane into the Capitol during the presidential investiture.
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#41268
09/11/2001 2:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Helen showed me where she works, we walked to the World Trade Center and went up it together at New Year.
She works near City Hall it took us ten to fifteen minutes to walk there, so I hope that she will be away from the worst of it. I just hope she'll let us know when she gets home.
Jo
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#41269
09/11/2001 3:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
i am surprised it was so easy to crash plane into Pentagon. During WWII, there were Air Force planes always on the alert, and radar to tell them when any plane was approaching the Capitol or Pentagon.
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#41270
09/11/2001 3:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, I was amazed at that. Doesn't seem to bode well for the principle of interception at all if the nerve centre can be crippled so easily.
(Rod, our other EPAer is Hyla on the West Coast, and thank goodness that part is not yet under obvious threat, though rumours abound about that other plane under fighter threat)
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#41271
09/11/2001 5:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
It's horrible. The T.V. has been on since this morning in our office and the news has not gotten any better. Both towers collapsed, part of the Pentagon has fallen. There were also plane crashes at Camp David and in Pensilvania. EDIT: there seems to be no crash at Camp David. There was a mix-up here when someone said that the Pensilvania plane might have been on way to Camp David. CNN as of 2:33 ET does not report anything at this site
Many business highrises have been evacuated including some in Toronto and Québec. International flights have been rerouted to our airports, some at Dorval (Montreal) and Mirabel and now most at Newfoundland. As a precaution, they are being forced to circle the airfield to get rid of most of their fuel.
Does anybody have Helen's number? Didn't CapK stop off to see her while in U.S. If so, maybe he has it. Does anybody have his?
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#41272
09/11/2001 5:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,605 |
Do I recall that inselpeter is a New Yorker?
If so, any word whether he and his are OK?
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#41273
09/11/2001 5:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,891 |
We will probably not hear from Helen soon. CNN has reported that the tunnels and bridges out of NYC are all closed. No note about when they will be allowed to open again.
As to crashes. They report a total of four flights. The two Trade Tower flights, the Pentagon and the flight that crashed in Pensilvania. Apparently, on the latter, a passenger was hiding in bathroom and was in contact with emergency operators until crash. He said plane was being hijacked.
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#41274
09/11/2001 6:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Been watching TV all afternoon. Damage seems limited to the World Trade Center area. Half a mile away should be okay.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#41275
09/11/2001 7:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I have no number for inselpeter. I think I may have actually gotten through to Helen's home, but of course there was no answer. Even when she gets there, it may take a long time for phone lines to be freed up.
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#41276
09/11/2001 8:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
A friend in NYC just got thru to me (after 5 pm)... she only got two calls out all day! One to family and one to me. Cannot reach other friends. She was evacuated from her building but is home and OK now.
Boston's Logan Airport closed until further notice.... only cops and news people at Logan. Skies quiet. Medical Emergency Teams from Boston readying to go NYC. Red Cross blood centers jammed with people in Boston and environs.
Captain of one airplne was a NH man ...trying to find out if he is brother of family we know as name is same.
Did you notice today's date is 911? Sept 11
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#41277
09/11/2001 8:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A frightening report on CNN, whose analyst showed the radar-tracking of each of the four planes, per air traffic control. Each, after traveling a goodly way on its regular, planned flight path, then veered suddenly and sharply. After they veered, two were flying straight toward New York City; the other two straight toward Washington, D.C. Also, the timings were such that (as best I could tell), each pair would reach its target city simultaneously.
If so, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to deduce from that pattern exactly what was happening. It appears (though not precisely stated) that the pattern was visible about half an hour before impact -- presumably enough time to send up military interceptor-aircraft.
Was this pattern spotted and recognized?
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#41278
09/11/2001 9:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387 |
This is weird. I convince Mike that I should use his bass, and the the teacher turns on the tv and the World Trade Center is falling down. I turned on the tv when I got home, and several foreign nations say they didn't do it, (Palestine, Afganistan, mostly) Nato is talking about whether we're going to war when we find out who did it, the Palestinian government is saying they didn't tell their people to celebrate, and government officials are flying around the country, and the news doesn't even change from Smith to Cavuto or put on commercials. This proves that terrorists are insane.
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#41279
09/11/2001 9:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
This is a terrible thing to happen. My heart goes out to everyone of my friends in America, and especially to those in New York.
I just hope that Helen and inselpeter are safe.
I shed my tears for all who have died.
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#41280
09/11/2001 10:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Yes Helen is OK - in case you read this before the post she made in another thread.
Jo
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#41281
09/11/2001 10:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Insel has no information in his bio. Has anybody gotten any more info from him?
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#41282
09/11/2001 10:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
As the sun went down over a small field in Wales tonight, I played frisbee with my kids, and thought about all the people whose lives have been ripped to pieces by the misery of today's nightmare.
The power of the human mind is indeed almost limitless - and can be used for the most despicable evil as well as the most uplifting beauty. May all the sufferers and survivors take heart with good wishes from friends around the globe.
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#41283
09/11/2001 10:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Horrid day. Night night. Love to all I know, knew and those I never will get the chance to know. Sadness for all those who have suffered in the many horrors of our world wherever they be.
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#41284
09/12/2001 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I've flown into and out of DC more times than I care to count. Most takeoffs from National (now Ron Ron) go up the Potomac between the Pentagon and the DC Mall. It would be far too easy to turn one of those babies and push the nose down. When you go by the Pentagon on a normal takeoff you may be a thousand feet up, but certainly not 1500.
It's 30 miles from Dulles to the Pentagon. At 300 miles per hour, that's six minutes. At 600 MPH it's 3 minutes. NO air force in the world can scramble a plane in that time. Takes that long to get from the ready room to the cockpit.
And what I would do if I were the terrorist would be to take over the plane as soon as the wheels were up, go up the river right over National Airport, and you are literally fifteen seconds from the Pentagon.
TEd
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#41285
09/12/2001 12:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Two people in England gave me messages today, having no one else in the U.S. to convey their sorrow to, so I shall pass it on here that the British people are shocked and in total sympathy with us. Thank you, my friends.
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#41286
09/12/2001 2:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Thank you, Jackie, for passing on the messages from England. I imagine that your correspondents may be old enough to remember the Blitz, and if so, they must know what people in NY went through. They would be hearing from Peter Jennings et al. about NY the way Americans heard about London from Edward R. Murrow. And that's one reason why there is a special relationship between USns and limeys, 1776 and 1812 notwithstanding.
We, the USns, are undoubtedly the most fortunate, or the most blessed by divine Providence, people in the world. Except for the last Day of Infamy in 1941, we have gone untouched and unharmed by any external force since 1814, only suffering the grievous wounds we inflicted on ourselves. The devastation visited on most other countries, in the 20th century alone, was appalling, but we were spared. We have been, at least since the beginning of the last century, very complacent, feeling that our remoteness from other threatening enemies and our own superiority, wealth and power would protect us from what has befallen others. We have been warned for at least 10 years that this sense of security was false, that we were indeed vulnerable. Now we know.
If there can be any bright spot in such an unspeakable tragedy, it is the good wishes we are receiving from our friends around the world, many of whom can offer sympathy from their own experience. For this, I am grateful.
We may also be grateful for this board and others like it. Today I went to work but left at noon. One reason was that I could reach no one out of the local area by telephone; the circuits were all busy. So I couldn't speak to someone 30 miles away, but we have heard from our dear friends around the globe. There's glory for you!
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#41287
09/12/2001 2:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 10,542 |
you know, try as we might, there just are no words to adequately express the emotions that are (and will be)brought forth by these events. not the least of which is the disgust engendered by the knowledge that somewhere people are dancing in the streets.
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#41288
09/12/2001 2:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 11,613 |
somewhere people are dancing in the streets.Oh, yes, I feel sure that the bosses believe they have masterminded a thoroughly justified deed. 
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#41289
09/12/2001 2:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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#41290
09/12/2001 2:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<nhumanity at its worst has given humanity a chance to shine at its best.>>
I love you, Max.
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#41291
09/12/2001 3:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
It's obvious that this was an extremely well thought-out attack, with a 75% success rate (three of four hijacked aircraft hitting their targets). The question I have to ask is why? They struck at the symbols of US economic and military power, notwithstanding the horrific loss of civilian life, basically giving the US a bloody nose. Are these people protesting US meddling in their countries' affairs, as this country is wont to do far too often, or are they just trying to rule the world themselves? The former deserves genuine, thoughtful consideration by the US government; the latter deserves annihilation. Which, in your opinions, is more likely the case? Are there alternatives to these two possibilities? Those outside the US may well have insights that I, a citizen of the US, may not have, so I value all input.
Geoff
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#41292
09/12/2001 3:41 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
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#41293
09/12/2001 3:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<Are there alternatives to these two possibilities?>>
Religious zeal. I suppose this could be considered a variant of the first.
Should the US rethink its foriegn policy? Yes. But this was an act of war.
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#41294
09/12/2001 3:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 10,542 |
there is at least one other possibility, Geoff. to some religious zealots the WTC is a symbol of Jewish hegemony -- witness the 1993 bombing attempt. along with the obvious military significance of the Pentagon, this looks like an attack on the two great satanic evils of present-day Islam.
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#41295
09/12/2001 3:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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#41296
09/12/2001 4:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Well yes. As someone who lives in a predominantly Muslim country, I have to say that the reaction here so far seems to be shock and disbelief. Over and over again I keep hearing "It's like something out of a movie" and pity for those working or families and dependents of people working in the WTC, even ffrom people who normally take a somewhat jaundiced view of the US and its policies.
In the meantime, might I suggest that tempting though it is, we not speculate over who was responsible. Remember after flight 101 crashed into the Atlantic, there was a lot of speculation about Palestinian terrorists and it turned out to be an accident, and the man (I forget his name) who was falsely accused of the bomb at the Atlantic Olympics. Just imagine the consequences of retaliation against the wrong people or of people taking the law into their own hands as many are tempted to do after horrific news.
Bingley
Bingley
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#41297
09/12/2001 5:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 163 |
I would like to express my deepest condolences to the American people and to the human race because this has been an act against all humanity.
I am deeply ashamed about being a member of a species that can make things like that.
If one of their objectives was making us a little worse, at least in my case, they have succeeded. I am ashamed too about the thoughts of wild retaliation that keep churning on my mind.
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#41298
09/12/2001 8:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>In the meantime, might I suggest that tempting though it is, we not speculate over who was responsible.
I agree.
Although there has been some news reporting of celebrations, the overall reaction, around the world, has been of horror at the scale of the atrocity and loss of human life. The WTC was home to many foreign trade organisations, and there is a diverse ethnic mix in today's USA. People of all races and religions must have suffered.
Adverse reactions have been shown on television but the power of the mob is very strong and, even with our relatively free press, we know we are not given all the information that is available. It is hard to imagine what it must be like growing up in one of the countries of the world, like the old Soviet regime, old South Africa, for example, where news reporting and even that which is taught in schools, is very, very biased. A recent interview with a woman who had been caught on film screaming at black people being bussed to school in Little Rock, Arkansas is an example of how we conform to the beliefs of those around us. She said that it was hard to believe that she had done such a thing but it was not just her view but those of the ministers, teachers and family around her. Who else do we trust? The news showed a woman screaming "Fenian Bastards" (no apologies for the quote) at catholic children going to school in Northern Ireland, only last week. It isn't only the extreme ends of the fundamentalist muslim world that displays such behaviour.
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#41299
09/12/2001 8:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
I think these thoughts are spot on. We give these inhuman bastards too easy a victory by descending to the depths of our natural anger. They, after all, are the ones who can only gain by a world made less rational, less humane, less careful and caring.
Cold and calculating reason is now required, and reprisals and preventative measures taken in the control of this reason. We coud have nothing better to guide us. Reason's opponents can have nowhere to hide from its light.
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#41300
09/12/2001 9:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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