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I can't get through to any of the news sites & wire services about the horror story at the WTC - does anyone have news? Is Helen OK?
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One of the towers has collapsed. The Pentagon has also been attacked, or so I hear. I've been able to get news from http://eltiempo.terra.com.co but even they've been giving me connection refused lately. (I just got through again from my preview) We've been watching on TV. It should be localized enough that Helen hasn't been in the line of fire.
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Where does Helen work?
Bingley
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She works at the EPA. Lemme check see can I find out where that is in NYC
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Helen works at the Environmental Protection Agency but I don't know where the offices are. Another (female, but mey memory has really gone with this lot) boarder works in the EPA as well, but I don't know if that is also in NY.
Fingers crossed.
This is all, all too horrific and too much like the Jack Ryan blockbuster Executive Orders where the terrorists dive an aeroplane into the Capitol during the presidential investiture.
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Helen showed me where she works, we walked to the World Trade Center and went up it together at New Year.
She works near City Hall it took us ten to fifteen minutes to walk there, so I hope that she will be away from the worst of it. I just hope she'll let us know when she gets home.
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i am surprised it was so easy to crash plane into Pentagon. During WWII, there were Air Force planes always on the alert, and radar to tell them when any plane was approaching the Capitol or Pentagon.
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Yes, I was amazed at that. Doesn't seem to bode well for the principle of interception at all if the nerve centre can be crippled so easily.
(Rod, our other EPAer is Hyla on the West Coast, and thank goodness that part is not yet under obvious threat, though rumours abound about that other plane under fighter threat)
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It's horrible. The T.V. has been on since this morning in our office and the news has not gotten any better. Both towers collapsed, part of the Pentagon has fallen. There were also plane crashes at Camp David and in Pensilvania. EDIT: there seems to be no crash at Camp David. There was a mix-up here when someone said that the Pensilvania plane might have been on way to Camp David. CNN as of 2:33 ET does not report anything at this site
Many business highrises have been evacuated including some in Toronto and Québec. International flights have been rerouted to our airports, some at Dorval (Montreal) and Mirabel and now most at Newfoundland. As a precaution, they are being forced to circle the airfield to get rid of most of their fuel.
Does anybody have Helen's number? Didn't CapK stop off to see her while in U.S. If so, maybe he has it. Does anybody have his?
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Do I recall that inselpeter is a New Yorker?
If so, any word whether he and his are OK?
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We will probably not hear from Helen soon. CNN has reported that the tunnels and bridges out of NYC are all closed. No note about when they will be allowed to open again.
As to crashes. They report a total of four flights. The two Trade Tower flights, the Pentagon and the flight that crashed in Pensilvania. Apparently, on the latter, a passenger was hiding in bathroom and was in contact with emergency operators until crash. He said plane was being hijacked.
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Been watching TV all afternoon. Damage seems limited to the World Trade Center area. Half a mile away should be okay.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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I have no number for inselpeter. I think I may have actually gotten through to Helen's home, but of course there was no answer. Even when she gets there, it may take a long time for phone lines to be freed up.
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A friend in NYC just got thru to me (after 5 pm)... she only got two calls out all day! One to family and one to me. Cannot reach other friends. She was evacuated from her building but is home and OK now.
Boston's Logan Airport closed until further notice.... only cops and news people at Logan. Skies quiet. Medical Emergency Teams from Boston readying to go NYC. Red Cross blood centers jammed with people in Boston and environs.
Captain of one airplne was a NH man ...trying to find out if he is brother of family we know as name is same.
Did you notice today's date is 911? Sept 11
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A frightening report on CNN, whose analyst showed the radar-tracking of each of the four planes, per air traffic control. Each, after traveling a goodly way on its regular, planned flight path, then veered suddenly and sharply. After they veered, two were flying straight toward New York City; the other two straight toward Washington, D.C. Also, the timings were such that (as best I could tell), each pair would reach its target city simultaneously.
If so, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to deduce from that pattern exactly what was happening. It appears (though not precisely stated) that the pattern was visible about half an hour before impact -- presumably enough time to send up military interceptor-aircraft.
Was this pattern spotted and recognized?
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This is weird. I convince Mike that I should use his bass, and the the teacher turns on the tv and the World Trade Center is falling down. I turned on the tv when I got home, and several foreign nations say they didn't do it, (Palestine, Afganistan, mostly) Nato is talking about whether we're going to war when we find out who did it, the Palestinian government is saying they didn't tell their people to celebrate, and government officials are flying around the country, and the news doesn't even change from Smith to Cavuto or put on commercials. This proves that terrorists are insane.
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This is a terrible thing to happen. My heart goes out to everyone of my friends in America, and especially to those in New York.
I just hope that Helen and inselpeter are safe.
I shed my tears for all who have died.
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Yes Helen is OK - in case you read this before the post she made in another thread.
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Insel has no information in his bio. Has anybody gotten any more info from him?
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As the sun went down over a small field in Wales tonight, I played frisbee with my kids, and thought about all the people whose lives have been ripped to pieces by the misery of today's nightmare.
The power of the human mind is indeed almost limitless - and can be used for the most despicable evil as well as the most uplifting beauty. May all the sufferers and survivors take heart with good wishes from friends around the globe.
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Horrid day. Night night. Love to all I know, knew and those I never will get the chance to know. Sadness for all those who have suffered in the many horrors of our world wherever they be.
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I've flown into and out of DC more times than I care to count. Most takeoffs from National (now Ron Ron) go up the Potomac between the Pentagon and the DC Mall. It would be far too easy to turn one of those babies and push the nose down. When you go by the Pentagon on a normal takeoff you may be a thousand feet up, but certainly not 1500.
It's 30 miles from Dulles to the Pentagon. At 300 miles per hour, that's six minutes. At 600 MPH it's 3 minutes. NO air force in the world can scramble a plane in that time. Takes that long to get from the ready room to the cockpit.
And what I would do if I were the terrorist would be to take over the plane as soon as the wheels were up, go up the river right over National Airport, and you are literally fifteen seconds from the Pentagon.
TEd
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Two people in England gave me messages today, having no one else in the U.S. to convey their sorrow to, so I shall pass it on here that the British people are shocked and in total sympathy with us. Thank you, my friends.
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Thank you, Jackie, for passing on the messages from England. I imagine that your correspondents may be old enough to remember the Blitz, and if so, they must know what people in NY went through. They would be hearing from Peter Jennings et al. about NY the way Americans heard about London from Edward R. Murrow. And that's one reason why there is a special relationship between USns and limeys, 1776 and 1812 notwithstanding.
We, the USns, are undoubtedly the most fortunate, or the most blessed by divine Providence, people in the world. Except for the last Day of Infamy in 1941, we have gone untouched and unharmed by any external force since 1814, only suffering the grievous wounds we inflicted on ourselves. The devastation visited on most other countries, in the 20th century alone, was appalling, but we were spared. We have been, at least since the beginning of the last century, very complacent, feeling that our remoteness from other threatening enemies and our own superiority, wealth and power would protect us from what has befallen others. We have been warned for at least 10 years that this sense of security was false, that we were indeed vulnerable. Now we know.
If there can be any bright spot in such an unspeakable tragedy, it is the good wishes we are receiving from our friends around the world, many of whom can offer sympathy from their own experience. For this, I am grateful.
We may also be grateful for this board and others like it. Today I went to work but left at noon. One reason was that I could reach no one out of the local area by telephone; the circuits were all busy. So I couldn't speak to someone 30 miles away, but we have heard from our dear friends around the globe. There's glory for you!
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you know, try as we might, there just are no words to adequately express the emotions that are (and will be)brought forth by these events. not the least of which is the disgust engendered by the knowledge that somewhere people are dancing in the streets.
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somewhere people are dancing in the streets.Oh, yes, I feel sure that the bosses believe they have masterminded a thoroughly justified deed. 
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<<nhumanity at its worst has given humanity a chance to shine at its best.>>
I love you, Max.
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It's obvious that this was an extremely well thought-out attack, with a 75% success rate (three of four hijacked aircraft hitting their targets). The question I have to ask is why? They struck at the symbols of US economic and military power, notwithstanding the horrific loss of civilian life, basically giving the US a bloody nose. Are these people protesting US meddling in their countries' affairs, as this country is wont to do far too often, or are they just trying to rule the world themselves? The former deserves genuine, thoughtful consideration by the US government; the latter deserves annihilation. Which, in your opinions, is more likely the case? Are there alternatives to these two possibilities? Those outside the US may well have insights that I, a citizen of the US, may not have, so I value all input.
Geoff
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<<Are there alternatives to these two possibilities?>>
Religious zeal. I suppose this could be considered a variant of the first.
Should the US rethink its foriegn policy? Yes. But this was an act of war.
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there is at least one other possibility, Geoff. to some religious zealots the WTC is a symbol of Jewish hegemony -- witness the 1993 bombing attempt. along with the obvious military significance of the Pentagon, this looks like an attack on the two great satanic evils of present-day Islam.
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Well yes. As someone who lives in a predominantly Muslim country, I have to say that the reaction here so far seems to be shock and disbelief. Over and over again I keep hearing "It's like something out of a movie" and pity for those working or families and dependents of people working in the WTC, even ffrom people who normally take a somewhat jaundiced view of the US and its policies.
In the meantime, might I suggest that tempting though it is, we not speculate over who was responsible. Remember after flight 101 crashed into the Atlantic, there was a lot of speculation about Palestinian terrorists and it turned out to be an accident, and the man (I forget his name) who was falsely accused of the bomb at the Atlantic Olympics. Just imagine the consequences of retaliation against the wrong people or of people taking the law into their own hands as many are tempted to do after horrific news.
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I would like to express my deepest condolences to the American people and to the human race because this has been an act against all humanity.
I am deeply ashamed about being a member of a species that can make things like that.
If one of their objectives was making us a little worse, at least in my case, they have succeeded. I am ashamed too about the thoughts of wild retaliation that keep churning on my mind.
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>In the meantime, might I suggest that tempting though it is, we not speculate over who was responsible.
I agree.
Although there has been some news reporting of celebrations, the overall reaction, around the world, has been of horror at the scale of the atrocity and loss of human life. The WTC was home to many foreign trade organisations, and there is a diverse ethnic mix in today's USA. People of all races and religions must have suffered.
Adverse reactions have been shown on television but the power of the mob is very strong and, even with our relatively free press, we know we are not given all the information that is available. It is hard to imagine what it must be like growing up in one of the countries of the world, like the old Soviet regime, old South Africa, for example, where news reporting and even that which is taught in schools, is very, very biased. A recent interview with a woman who had been caught on film screaming at black people being bussed to school in Little Rock, Arkansas is an example of how we conform to the beliefs of those around us. She said that it was hard to believe that she had done such a thing but it was not just her view but those of the ministers, teachers and family around her. Who else do we trust? The news showed a woman screaming "Fenian Bastards" (no apologies for the quote) at catholic children going to school in Northern Ireland, only last week. It isn't only the extreme ends of the fundamentalist muslim world that displays such behaviour.
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I think these thoughts are spot on. We give these inhuman bastards too easy a victory by descending to the depths of our natural anger. They, after all, are the ones who can only gain by a world made less rational, less humane, less careful and caring.
Cold and calculating reason is now required, and reprisals and preventative measures taken in the control of this reason. We coud have nothing better to guide us. Reason's opponents can have nowhere to hide from its light.
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You go to bed hoping to wake from a nightmare. Screams live around me now. I want to break out in them. Tears I cannot shed. They rise in a column of smoke and gypsum. They scatter their ash on us. The thousands, the thousands who died. Who lie buried in broken steel and concrete. Alive. In hope. Aircraft carriers to the harbors of the free city. The city I love. Army on the street. Come downtown and you will be arrested. Every threat to every bridge, credible. Schools closed. How many children's parents will never bring them there again? Remember them. Send us your hearts. Our's are broken.
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Send us your hearts.
So we do, sir; so we do.
MaxQ has given us a beacon to light our way: "Inhumanity at its worst has given humanity a chance to shine at its best."
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Screams live around me now. I want to break out in them.
Of course you do--go ahead, darling one. You and all who were eyewitnesses. And some of us who weren't. You have had our hearts since yesterday morning. I don't know if the feeling of being in a nightmare will ever go away. I know how badly I want to wake up--it must be thousands of times worse for you.
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Max, I think you may be the wisest of us all. Witness:
Or, at least as percieved by some fundamentalist, mostly Shi'ite, Muslims. Not all Muslims feel this way, and to tar them all with the fundamentalist brush would be to give the pepetrators another victory.
The ability of so many so close to the tragedy to see clearly the perils of overreaction is an inspiration, and ought to strike real fear into those unspeakable fiends responsible.
Inhumanity at its worst has given humanity a chance to shine at its best.
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Partial List of Hijacking Victims; .c The Associated Press
- Christine Hanson, 2, Massachusetts.
- Juliana Valentine McCourt, 4, Westford, Mass.
dear god, dear god, dear god ...
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that the first thing that everyone wants to do after a disaster is: talk to somebody about it?
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An earlier generation knew the neighborhood where I live as "Hell's Hundred Acres." Outside of history books, the name is all but forgotten, now. But around the corner, the firemen of the local company remembered, and christened one of their engines that. Unostentatiously. You would only notice if you passed close by the open garage door where, on pleasant days, they would pass the time. If you didn't know the men by name, you did by sight. We often laughed watching them shop, planning gourmet meals for their duty. These men. Strapping. Almost surly, if you can mean that 'in the best sense.'
Being no near the disaster, the company was among the first to arrive on the scene. Presumably, before the buildings toppled. Because they were too close. The engine, flattened. Of that company, none survived.
And the company on Broome Street, just a block or two further away, lost half its men.
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John 15:13 "Greater love hath no man than this, that
he lay down his life for his friends.".
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Jackie, I thank God for your heart.
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Oh Insel. My heart breaks as yours does. Courage love, courage. Know that all of us have you in our heart and minds always.
The call came this morning that NY needed blood badly. Donor clinics have already been set up all over the city and people are flocking. We're on our way do not dispair.
Love,
Gin.
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this looks like an attack on the two great satanic evils of present-day Islam.
And the satanic evils of present-day Ralph Nader, and Noam Chomsky, and myself. It cannot be Islam itself, but a perversion of Islam, that may be to blame. Remember that the Golden Age of Spain resulted from a coopertion of Islam and Judaism. It was destroyed by a corruption of Christianity. They all spring from the same root. May they all remember that, and become brothers and sisters again.
Inselpeter, I hope that you have friends, a clergyperson, and/or a psychotherapist at hand. The terror of this is something that we on the west coast can only share vicariously, but we do share it.
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Dear Helen, Inselpeter, and all. To see it on television was horrifyings. Then the other crashes. Horror upon horror. To have actually seen it must sear the soul.
I once read somewhere : "God preserve man from enduring all that man is capable of enduring." To that I can say only Amen.
Thank you seems so poor a response to our friends over the seas but what else can one say for all the kindness, in such circumstances. Thank you.
On TV just now it was announced that in Boston, Mass., there is a fund being set up at Citizen's Bank for donations to help the people in the disaster.
ABC News just announced that the "dead and missing" at Pentagon is now 200. Not the 800 originally estimated at first. Apparently there was an area under renovation and the aircraft appears to have struck there.
In NYC 260 firefighters and police are dead and/or missing.
I was told that even China sent condolences and support for any action US may take, saying that terrorism is "a cancer that must be cut out." Anyone else hear that?
It's one small solace (gratefully received) to read of the concern and plain decency displayed by posters on this Board over yesterday and today.
Puts all our petty differences here and among our own family, friends and acquaintances in proportion doesn't it?
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I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin'...
“We lost something like 245 Marines in Lebanon, there
was the Mogadishu thing, the Cole, Khobar Towers and
embassies in Africa,” said Professor William Turcotte,
chairman of the national security decision-making
department at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport,
R.I. “We haven’t had a clue as to what to do.... The
fundamental issue we have not addressed: If the harborer of
terrorists — Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan — if they have
said the U.S. is ‘The Great Satan,’ and even without a
smoking gun we know they have encouraged this, do you
attack the country? So far, we have not. Will our mood
change?”
“We will make no distinction between the terrorists
who commit these acts and those who harbor them.”
-G.W. Bush
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I do so hope that good sense and common humanity will prevail in America, once the anguish adn anger have abated a little.
An act of retaliatory vindictiveness will lose the USA the synpathy that is currently being poured out by the whole world.
That leaders of nations traditionally hostile to the USA have roundly and promptly condemmned this atrocity is witness to the wisdom of Max's remarks, above.
But it is well to take note that the pupils in my sister-in-law's TEFL class, from Palestine, Vietnam, China and Chile, whilst properly appalled at the needless bloodshed, were not very complimentary about the USA,s foreign policy as applied to their own countries.
This is a time when the hearts of all good thinking people are reaching out to the good, ordinary folk all over the USA, and in NYC especially.
Please, please do not let this beautiful fund of goodwill be sullied by a further act of violence.
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If I may: to my knowledge, the United States is not in the habit of acting out blind revenge. The closest that I can think of was in the Persian Gulf War, and then we--mostly--tried to target only the guilty, or the threatening.
I know I'm showing my ignorance, but I am really surprised that people seem to think we're going to do the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb somewhere.
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jackie, I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin' (part deux)
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life —
mostly in New York City’s World Trade Center, but also
near Pittsburgh and Washington — ensured that “no option
has been taken off the table,” senior U.S. officials said.
Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official
said: “I said no option is out of the question. That’s
precisely what I mean.”
[from msnbc.com/news]
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Have started new thread for "what's next," in Info/Announce
Perhaps we could move response/remedy discussion there?
A young mother and wife - a customer at my son's business - is a flight attendant for American Airlines. She flies the Flight 11 all the time -the plane that crashed into the WTC towers -- however -- she decided to take this week off to spend some time with family as children are going back to school and since husband works locally they could spend a few days together.
She knows all the crew on the plane. She is devastated.
The co-pilot of Flight 11, Tom MacGuiness, is from Portsmouth, just up the road a few miles.
We are all in shock. People have tied purple ribbons on trees and posts as expression of shared sorrow with his family.
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We share your sorrow and send our hearts as Inselpeter asked. Europe has declared Friday as a day of mourning with a 3 minute silence as a gesture of respect and sympathy. Only a gesture but this shows a shared emotion.
If anyone can think of anything practical that those of us further away can do please just ask. We will take a close interest in the "what next" discussions here and elsewhere, because ensuring this does not happen again anywhere is important.
My thoughts and love are for those with a close involvement in the tragedy. May they take strength from friends, colleagues, and the support of strangers.
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Rhuby:
I'm reading your post as a plea for America to turn the other cheek because retaliation would "lose the USA the synpathy (sic) that is currently being poured out by the whole world."
I must disagree. Human individuals may turn the other cheek and ignore a slight or an injury, but a government cannot do so, since it then ceases to be the protector of its citizenry. Our Constitution starts:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
We have made a career out of altruism. We have sent billions of dollars all over the world to feed, to clothe, to heal those less fortunate than ourselves. We have opened our arms to immigrants from literally every country in the world. We have thrice (if you include the Cold War) fought world-wide battles to establish a world atmosphere where every individual has the same rights and responsibilities as the person beside him or her. Our inventions and innovations have raised the standard of living to unparalleled heights. Our medical advances have helped raise life expectancy all around the world. We have in the main been even-handed in passing our good fortune on to others.
But we have let ourselves be pushed around once too often. Today as many as 40,000 of our citizens lie dead, incinerated and crushed by an evil hatred for our way of life (and our good fortune). If our country does not take strong, timely, and measured steps to prevent this from happening again, it will have failed to live up to at least four of the main phrases of the Preamble to our Constitution.
To paraphrase the late John Kennedy, Let the word go forth from this moment on YOU FUCK WITH US AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
Terrorism delendum est.
TEd
TEd
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To paraphrase the late John Kennedy, Let the word go forth from this moment on YOU FUCK WITH US AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
Or in the words of a Japanese Admiral following Pearl Harbor
"We have awakened a sleeping giant."
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Two steady streams of pedestrians on Broadway, south of the Houston Street perimeter. Heading north are the triage teams. Doctors and nurses, some in scrubs; unidentified workers, police in jeans and t-shirts, dusty, 9mm pistols at their sides. Others head down, shift on shift, or drive by in emergency vehicles. They are transporting heavy earth-moving equipment west along the shabby length of canal. Sanitation trucks hose down the streets, attempt to rid them of the ubiquitous gypsum. Dump trucks. Humvehs. Ambulances. Some race, some politely wait for the light and let you cross.
It is-like a Sabbath, here. Unearthly quiet for this place. Subdued. Alert. A time to reflect.
The world is divided between upper and lower Manhattan. There, north, the workers may not even pass through downtown on the way to work, the bereaved are fewer. And divided again. Those of us who live downtown are mostly spectators, not admitted to the perimeter as much as enveloped by it. The Battery still echoes with yesterday's explosion. The shockwave drove bereavement across the rivers, skimmed the harbor waters. We are in the eye of the storm: around, a wall of unimaginable pain, and lives ravaged.
What God could ask such sacrifice? If God *is the God who creates in destroying, we are bound to deny him. Not to pile hate on hate. And if to deny such God is folly, then folly is the best of humanity.
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Human individuals may turn the other cheek and ignore a slight or an injury, but a government cannot do so, since it then ceases to be the protector of its citizenry. ... But we have let ourselves be pushed around once too often. Today as many as 40,000 of our citizens lie dead ... Let the word go forth from this moment on YOU FUCK WITH US AT YOUR OWN PERIL.
Agreed, TEd. In hindsight I wish I'd previously posted this thought under our "rudeness" thread, for it would resonate here:
We can all deplore rudeness, and cruelty, and bullying, and violence, but we cannot stop with mere deploring words. In the real world they will ever exist, and we are responsible for how we act - or fail to act -- accordingly.
Cruelty, bullying and violence are weeds, and will spread ever-wider unless checked. There is but one way to deal effectively with the most vigorous and vile weeds: to deracinate them, thoroughly and promptly. One can hope to be careful and gentle, but never at the risk of losing sight of the job that must be done.
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Just beginning to emerge from the fog of shock that overcame me as I watched the first World Trade Tower crumble to the ground...New York is very special to me, I grew up 30 miles away in Plainfield, NJ, lived downtown in New York on E. 11th Street in the 70's, and always considered myself a New Yorker, so this was not just a national assault for me, but a very personal invasion as well. I thought of Helen, insel, and all the friends and acquaintances I have known in New York and the New York area over the years...the casualty numbers are liabel to have many faces. Spent until this morning trying to get in touch with the family of a friend, John Elsberg, who works for the Army in Washington as an editor of their Military History magazine and who is also a poet and publisher of an Anglo-American literary journal called "Bogg"...finally reached them this morning and he's okay. Turns out he had a meeting scheduled concerning some funding matters in the part of the Pentagon that was hit, but he decided to take the day off instead. The woman he was supposed to meet with is now among the missing. Then word came today that a young surgeon, the son of a doctor who saved my father's life back in '86 and who lives just a few blocks away from us here in Wildwood Crest (NJ), had an office on the 108th floor of the WTC and his family has not heard from him. So that really brings it home. Then the daughter of one of the pilots of the downed aircraft is from Mays Landing , NJ, on the Cape May County/Atlantic County border, just about 30 minutes from here, and a crew member of another plane is from Marlton, NJ, not far from here either. And, yet, as harsh as it may sound, all these personal connections seem trivial in light of the horrendous losses that will unfold to us. Celebrities, artists, sports figures, friends, family members...how can any one be an iota more important than the loss of any other in the magnitude of so overwhelming a tragedy? I especially think of all the children who have to be subjected to this gargantuan evil, how their innocent lives must now be forever changed by the horrible images they'll see on their screens, how their sense of youthful safety has been blown away by monsters. What kind of world are we bequeathing to them?
I weep for us all, I weep for humanity...to quote an old folk song, "When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn....?"
By the way, the State of New Jersey has declared a state of emergency, and teams of emergency personnel from every city and hamlet are heading to New York to help in the rescue and recovery effort.
Cape May County has already sent a contigent of firefighters, police, and EMTs, organized by the county sheriff with representatives from every town in the county, to the rescue scene.
A madman behind any mask is still a madman! ...ditto "barbarian" and "murderer"!
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I especially think of all the children who have to be subjected to this gargantuan evil, how their innocent lives must now be forever changed by the horrible images they'll see on their screens, how their sense of youthful safety has been blown away by monsters.
A psychiatrist on Public Radio said that parents should shut off the images and play a tape or play with their children. He went on to say that seeing the images over and over are hard enough for adults but can traumatize children.
Just thought I'd pass it along.
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So glad to hear inselpeter and Helen are okay. I lived in New York for a few years, and I'm still trying to get in contact with a number of friends there, but I think everyone I know and love there is okay.
I'm sure there are many people who will have "what-if" stories - I keep being stopped short by the thought that my partner and kids just flew from the east to California on Sunday, and that my mother was supposed to fly from Boston to San Francisco on American (not on one of the targeted flights, but still so similar) on Wednesday! She is thinking of flying on the weekend, and I'm torn - I've told her to drive or take the train, but I know we must not let fear grind us to a halt, for then the villains win, but it's hard when it's one's own mother.
On the broader question of our response - I agree that action must be taken, and that it must be swift and decisive, both to deter such acts in the future and to reduce the likelihood of reactions against muslim communities around the world that had nothing at all to do with this heinous act. At the same time, I have some hope that this will change the way Americans act in this world. Ted is right, that we have contributed in huge ways in this world, but we have also shown great arrogance in how we operate. I guess my hope is that from this experience we will develop some sort of guide for our own behavior - that the US, and most especially US corporations, will ask "Is what we're doing fair?" or "Can we do it in a way that makes everyone better off?" before acting abroad.
By this I do not mean to say that I sympathize with the mad, evil people who did this in any way - looking back at what I've written I fear that will be the interpretation. I think I'm looking, in the midst of all immediate loss of life, and the huge, difficult changes this tragedy will bring to our country and our world, for some good to come of it, for some basic change in the way we all treat each other, that may make it somehow a better world than we had before these horrible events.
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Just on ABC News -- they belive five or six men - believed to be the hijackers - took flying lessons in Florida.
It's so hard to know where to put the anger and the terrible sorrow.
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A psychiatrist on Public Radio said that parents should shut off the images and play a tape or play with their children. He went on to say that seeing the images over and over are hard enough for adults but can traumatize children.
Having been through something similar, I must disagree with that authority.
One morning thirteen years ago, when my older kids were in 4th and 1st grades, a madwoman entered their school, loaded her guns in the bathroom (and shot a boy there), and then entered a classroom and began firing. 6 kids were hit, one fatally.
In the aftermath the school, on the recommendation of psychiatrists, held special sessions for the kids to talk it out, individually, in groups, and in groups with their parents. That talking was, all agreed later, absolutely critical for all of us. To this day I vividly remember the shy little who broke the ice, and was the first to speak up, hesitatingly, in my daughter's fourth-grade class.
In general the older kids (3rd grade and up) managed to resolve their feelings once they talked it out. The younger kids had varying reactions. Some worked their way through it quickly, indeed seemed little affected. But those most affected at first were too young to have the verbal skills to talk it out, and had a good deal of trouble over the next few years.
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It has just been announced that the Empire State Building and Penn Station have been quickly evacuated due to a significant threat. They say Washington officials were briefed today in a security meeting that there was "high probability" of follow-up attacks. And they just reported that they believe 10,000 commuters lost their lives in the transportation mall beneath the WTC...I know so many people who live downtown and all over the city who could've been traveling through there...I just can't take anymore of this...God help us all! [tear-e]
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<<Whitman>>
There is time enough to pause, laugh, after all the days tears, a small miracle in the midst of all the horror. I know, Whitman, all of us are in terrible pain. Those of us here and elsewhere. The heart you all have extended us, I extend my heart to you.
I would like to tell you all how wonderful the state and municipal governments have been. I have never been a fan of Giulianni's, but he has been incredible. Everything is very well organized. If there is a military presence, it is not on the street. All the civil control is in the hands of the police, from what I've seen, and they've done a fantastic job. The firefighters have suffered terrible losses. There is an entirely new company in the firehouse around the corner, and new equipment. Flowers pile up in front of it, and candles. These women and man are truly valient, carrying on in the face of everything. And, for the most part, the citizenry has banded together.
Thank all of you for being all right about my going on. You have been a great help.
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Thanks, insel...truly, there is room to pause for a positive breath and a light rumination in the midst of this churning dimness. I love you all, I love New York, I love America, I love all the decent and kind-hearted Citizens of the World...I closed a poem once with the line "death denies nothing that is loved." WE ARE NOT DENIED!!! We should, indeed, allow ourselves to share a smile in the face of all this imposing denigration!  There...for you, insel!...and for all. But, mostly, for those who did this...that they will be diminished by the courage of our humor!!! Love and goodness will prevail...it has to!
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>have never been a fan of Giulianni's, but he has been incredible.
He has come over very well on television. I am impressed with his efforts.
The latest figures on British dead are "more than a hundred with the final figures likely to be in the mid hundreds" to quote our Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw on radio this morning. Yesterday several children at my daughter's school were still waiting to hear about relatives. The financial sector of Edinburgh, like many cities, has a very close relationship with Wall Street.
Today's "Thought for the Day" on Radio 4 was a senior Muslim religious leader who, like everyone I have come across, was appalled by the tragedy.
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The air has been filled with an acrid smoke, here, since last evening, but this morning it is clearing. I walked through the empty streets and noxious fumes last night, again to find a place to help the effort. South, to Canal and the west toward the river. Nearer the west side of the island, brigades of heavy equipment line the avenues. The crews of dump trucks, earth moving equipment, welding rigs chat, sleep in the cabs, feet thrown up on the dash. I recognize the names of contractors from New Jersey. Their trucks all bear small American flags. My attitude is completely changed toward these displays of patriotism. At Houston St. and 6th Ave., a group of civilians have erected a makeshift monument of flowers, candles, writings to the fallen. The stand cordoned off behind plastic tape and applaud each time a rescue worker passes, walking north from ground zero a mile or more south of where they stand. A young woman offers me a cotton rag to tie around my face to breath better. Someone has cut up sheets, and she carries strips of cotton cloth around her neck and hands them out to people she meets. But the air is clean on this side of town, the wind blowing from the west. A report comes over a police radio at one of the barricades on Houston. There has been a shooting somewhere. I can only wonder who from the over-taxed police force will respond. I awoke this morning with the sense something had happened. The lights from the entrance of the closed Holland Tunnel burned across town in the West, outside my window. I remembered that some of the tunnels and bridges had been closed or restricted. But I couldn't remember why. Eventually, the image of the pile of the World Trade Center in wreckage forces its way back into my consciousness and I am shocked all over again. Weep. This unspeakable, enormous tragedy, dissolves the differences between us. There is almost nothing but shared grief, mutual support, a desire to help and tremendous sacrifice. It may also be you learn the word "enemy" in a new way. I fervently hope, though, that what we, here, in this city have learned for each other-the fact, or sacred invention, of common humanity-will fly ahead, and in the face of, winds of hatred and prejudice; that tragedy not follow on tragedy, the concrete slabs of falling buildings. That we learn to recognize in the eyes of others, thousands of miles from here and different from us, our own needs, loves and terrors. They were office workers who died. Men and women with families. Not titans, but people. Let us not visit more tragedy on our own. For that is who 'they' are. Us. Let the new theater of war finally begin with empathy.
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Inselpeter, my heart weeps for you. Love. Perhaps your clearing air will be both local, and in another sense, worldwide, before too much longer. I hope.
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For the past two days in Emails with friends and on this Board I have mentioned my deep anger and sorrow and that I did not know where to place it.
Today I recognized that the sorrow is really compassion for all who are and will suffer and what I felt was not anger but outrage ... outrage that has now turned to resolve.
To inselpeter and all here who were so close to this horror my heart goes out to you.
we are more united, more resolute to combat terrorism and terrorists, and more ready to do something about terrorism than we have ever been.
These quoted words from another post say it well.
We Americans may have been brought to our knees by the attack but we have prayed, each in our own way, and we rise like the Phoenix, stronger than before and filled with a profound resolve.
It is just the beginning of a long road and it is my hope and prayer that our government will move to a deliberate and thoughtful measure.
We cannot abandon our Constitution. That would be a real victory for those who are responsible for the attack.
Revenge has no room in my heart towards any peoples.
The *Powers that perpetrated or supported the attack must be identified and - with the help and support of all civilized nations - be rooted out and stopped once and for all.
This may be disjointed, especially for someone who spent so many years as a writer. Please forgive that and read this with kind eyes.
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Dear Kieva, I agree with you totally about the need for children to be counseled.
What the psychiatrist was talking about, I believe, was the effect of the relentless repitition of the *images on the very young children and that should be avoided, to guard against *deepening the trauma.
Am I making sense? {sigh-e}
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<<'apologies'>>
It is very difficult to write coherently in these cirumstances. I admire the skill and resolve of those who can. Let us agree that in this thread, at least, such apologies are uncalled for.
Thank you, Wow, from everyone, I'm sure, for you caring thoughts.
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we are seeing, here and elsewhere, how events like this can bring out the best in people. but it also brings out the worst (bomb threats at the pentagon??). do you need to be reminded of these things? maybe not, but.
Scam artists capitalize on tragedy
Spam urging Red Cross donations sends users to trick site
By Bob Sullivan
MSNBC
Sept. 13 — Consumer protection advocates are
warning Internet users that scam artists are
trying to take advantage of Tuesday’s terrorist
attacks. Spam solicitations have been sent out
urging Netizens to donate money to the Red
Cross or other relief organizations. But the
e-mails direct potential donors to private Web
sites apparently designed to steal credit card
numbers.
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Scam artists capitalize on tragedy
Apparently there were people going on ebay to sell pieces of the WTC building.
To their credit, ebay has announced it will not allow any offerings that try to take advantage of this terrible situation.
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this just in, 5 firemen have just been unearthed, alive.. 2 walked away on their own power, 3 needed to be assisted..
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I've lived and gone to school in NYC, but have never been south of Houston. My only map of the city is pre-WTC days. Would you mind telling me exactly where it is--was--located? Thanks for you horrible/wonderful descriptions--there are no better people in the world than New Yorkers.
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Inselpeter - thank you for the painful descriptions and the good, beautiful thoughts.
Let us not visit more tragedy on our own. For that is who 'they' are. Us. Let the new theater of war finally begin with empathy.
I'd hope to have the strength of character to have such clarity in such a chaotic time, and I hope that the wonderful people of New York, and of the U.S., share your view.
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Thank Heavens, I just got an e-mail from two friends who live a block from the WTC. They just bought a loft there in June, and I'd been unable to reach them. They made it out as the second tower collapsed. Thank you, Inselpeter, for offering to try to reach them for me.
I'm reeling again. It's incredible how many times the enormity of this tragedy can come home to one - and I know we still don't know just how bad it really is.
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there is a local number that can give out names of everyone accounted for-- hyla, i am so glad you don't need it. i am sure it will be busy.. 1 212-447-2998. it won't be able to give you any more information except to say, yes, this person is a known survivor. many of the survivors are in shelters, with limited access to phones, (and no ability to get incoming calls)telephone phone traffic into an out of manhattan, or in out NYC is still spotty- you get busy circut signals. i can get on-line because i have a local (queens) access #. the building that is now crumbling, is across the street to the west of WTC.. the grey bar on tsumw map is a pedestrian bridge to the building.. these building took the brunt of the explosion.. they are new, curtain wall buildings, but many of the building on the east, south, or north side of WTC are older, masonary building-- and a masonary skyscraper, has a huge, physical mass, walls can be as thick as meter at the base. and WTC is lower.. (elevation, maybe 15 feet about sea level, but broadway is about 30, 40 feet above sea level, a steep enough difference that at place, just two blocks south of WTC have sets of stairs, not sidewalks.. (one building provides an escalator..) my building, (30 stories, my office 26th) was "in line " of site (that is, i didn't have to look up ..) to see first crash site (100 floor) partly that is just perspective, but i guess, our 26th floor was even with 50 floor of WTC. but Liberty plaza was built on land fill, and was even lower.. but the good news is, sonar is picking up 3 different 'tap" patterns.. so at least 3 survivers exist.. manybe more.. in looking at tsumw map, i work (well, make that used to work!) is just off the map, just north of city hall. tomorrow i will work at alternate work site, in NJ. some of the images on the time (mag) site, show lobbies/atriums of building in WTC-- even at ground zero, there is still an atrium with a dozen trees standing.. this is an image about 1 block --2tenths of a mile from WTC notice the cars, and benchs, and trees in the park are mostly undamaged, but covered with 2 to 3 inches of ash/dust. http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/rescue2/3.html
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Helen,
I am so glad you survived and are back here. Everything is so much a daze. I will try to contact you soon.
Thank you, Hyla, for your generous remarks and kind spirit.
Thank all of you for all your expressions of caring. Believe me, every word is as heaven sent. It has meant a great deal to me that *all **all of you have been there. We are together.
With love,
IP
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Word today that The Republic of Ireland has set aside tomorrow Sept. 14 as a national day of prayer and condolence for USA. Only essential services operating.
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I wish all innocent victims of the WTC attack the very best under the circumstances, and all the innocent victims of the imminent "YOU FUCK WITH US AT YOUR OWN PERIL" attacks by the U.S. my best wishes. Attacks by the Americans will serve only to further polarise the world's political and religious groups and will, like those in New York, sprend only terror and fear.
Those on both sides of the fence will have thus proven their collective disregard for the lessons taught by their purported religions - ONCE AGAIN!
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belligerentyouth
Those on both sides of the fence will have thus proven their collective disregard for the lessons taught by their purported religions - ONCE AGAIN!
And on and on and on--
Hopelessness is what I feel.
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I decided the post that used to be here belonged more to the remedy/response thread so I've moved it. Sorry if I've confused anyone.
Bingley
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their purported religions
Indeed® If you stacked up all the evil and inhumane deeds down the centuries, how many would be free of the taint of religious zeal? God must be really confused, being asked to fight himself in so many wars.
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If you wake up with any optimism in your hearts, you might like to look at pictures from my hometown. http://www.rebuilding-manchester.co.uk/photos/It was "only" a building that was bombed and thankfully no-one lost their life, although livelihoods were affected for many. I'm not sure if the hope for the future of the city is misplaced but I know that people are doing their best as I see those in New York trying to pick through the ashes.
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I just got this from Capital Kiwi (thanks, friend):
...at the changing of the guard at Buck House yesterday the band played the AMERICAN national anthem as a mark of respect and tribute. It's the first time EVER that the band didn't play God Save The Queen.
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Oh, Max--my tears are streaming...thank you for posting that.
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This from where I was born: A BBC correspondent in the city says she saw two people killed with machetes by people shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is great).Just a couple of the 500 deaths this week from god-fearing Christians and Muslims. In February 2000, more than 2,000 people were killed in religious unrest in Kaduna, and some 450 more Nigerians died in reprisals in the south-east of the country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1541000/1541901.stm
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and the UK had 3 minutes silence today (as presumably did most of Europe), which was widely honoured. Even our local buses stopped where they were.
We all know people who have friends, colleages, and even relatives caught up in the horror. My daughter is in financial recruitment and has arranged jobs in WTC for several clients. Some she has heard from, some not. IBM had an employee on one of the planes, and the daughter of an employee on another. The hideous anonymous numbers are becoming more personal as the stories come through.
The list of countries with victims is large.
Even Sweden has made a firm statement about committing its resources, unusual considering its solid previous neutrality.
Our hearts you have, and now some promises. For what, we don't know yet.
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at the changing of the guard at Buck House yesterday the band played the AMERICAN national anthem as a mark of respect and tribute. It's the first time EVER that the band didn't play God Save The Queen.
This was done (according to what I heard on TV) at the personal request and direction of the Queen.
There are no words to express ...
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The outpouring of support and kindness from Nations around the world is deeply appreciated. Thank you all from this American.
Here is an Email I received three different versions of - some long, some short - which I have sent to every US name on my mailing list so some may have it already.
Americans! Show Unity Tonight at 7 p.m.
Tonight, Friday, Sept. 14, at 7 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of your establishment and light a candle, turn on a flashlight, flick on a lighter, if you are house-bound turn on outside lights, place a light in the window. We will show the world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism.
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.
Business people : spread the word to your neighbor businesses who may not have Email.
We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly
As this is written, the services at the National Cathedral in Washington D.C. are underway with President, all former Presidents and Vice Presidents attending, Army Orchestra and Navy Sea Chanty Chorus, Cathedral Choir. Watch TV if you can. It is heartening.
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450 more Nigerians died
I witnessed the results of previous turmoil in Nigeria which led to the Biafran war, with refugee trains of people injured and corpses mutilated with machetes. I am all too painfully aware of man's inhumanity to other men, and the casualness with which it can be inflicted. But I have never managed to understand how people can make that terrible step.
I have also witnessed a terrorist (Basque or sympathiser) bomb in Germany; it was only by luck that no-one (including myself and family)was killed or seriously injured. Again, even if the attack was against the Spanish consulate, I fail to see how maiming innocent bystanders can further the cause driving these fanatics. But then I have never lived in an "occupied" country or considered myself at war. And I know war dehumanises us all.
If we knew more about the how and why, we might be able to find ways to resolve or lessen at least some of the conflicts. Some lessons might be learned from Northern Ireland. While no-one pretends that the Northern Ireland problem is solved, the worst excesses (on all sides) have diminished considerably, which has allowed some semblance of normal life to resume. But the enmity runs deep and the ambitions of the various sides are fundamentally incompatible, so we are not safe yet.
The Northern Ireland problem was not improved by ridding the province of all the terrorists, (that is almost impossible by military means and even the ones locked up are now back on the streets) but by showing that terrorism was unlikely to achieve their aims and by providing a political framework that might do so. There are other issues such as removing the active support base in the community, and making arms and money more difficult to obtain. This is a slow process which has to be coordinated on many fronts, political, social, economic, international, intelligence, and military. And sacred cows (including vengeance and justice) have to be compromised on the way.
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<<no words can express...>>
but thanks, and thanks, and ever thanks
***
Because it must be said--and not because it need be directed at any member of this community--and said over and over again, as the images of the falling towers have been broadcast and rebroadcast, violence against Muslims such as has been reported, must be universally abhorred. I distinguish that maxim, in this case, from violent justice brought on criminals. But it is absolute. The compounding of tragedy, the multiplication of crimes against humanity, cannot be. We are better than that. We must be.
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The compounding of tragedy, the multiplication of crimes against humanity, cannot be. We are better than that. We must be.
Amen.
"we must be" ... or we surrender our humanity.
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Yes, exactly. Over this there can surely be no disagreement - we have to rise again, to the heights of what we can be, not the depths of what we have seen this week.
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<<not the depths of what we have seen this week.>>
No, indeed. But to the heights of what we have seen this week--when the grandeur of the human spirit has shown itself in very small, very intimate acts of kindness, caring and immense self-sacrifice. The front of what is good in us is in the minutia of interpersonal act and expression. If I can occassionally be convinced that anything exists in this world, it is love. New Yorkers begin to donn their poker faces again, but we have seen each others' hearts. Along with every anguish, that is the vision to sear into heart and mind as memorial of what this time has wrought.
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A good friend asked me, "How valuable were the WTC buildings? In dollars, what were they worth, and who will bear that loss?" (My business is in the field of commercial real estate.) Appreciating that dollars can never be an appropriate measure of this terrible tragedy, the following may nonetheless be of interest:
July 25, 2001: Leasing of Trade Center May Help Transit Projects, Pataki Says. By RONALD SMOTHERS Source: The New York Times Abstract: Gov George E Pataki, speaking at closing of Port Authority's $3.2 billion deal to lease World Trade Center, NYC, to partnership of Silverstein Properties and Westfield America, says funds from deal could help finance long-stalled Second Avenue subway and plans to provide tunnel access for Long Island Rail Road trains to Grand Central Terminal; hails Port Authority's return to its core mission: transportation; Mayor Rudolph W Giuliani, whose administation has been at odds with Port Authority, does not attend ceremony Lead Paragraph: Gov. George E. Pataki, speaking yesterday at the closing of the $3.2 billion deal to lease the World Trade Center, said the money from the deal could help finance the long-stalled Second Avenue subway and plans to provide tunnel access for Long Islan...
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For a little relief from all the horror, check tsuwms other thread on "ghosts" in Wordplay and Fun.
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As an aside to all, please plese please check your home, auto, and perhaps ife insurance policies to see if there is a terrorism/act of war exclusion.
I am beginning to fear that the administration's continued references to the attacks in NY and DC as acts of war is going to trigger these clauses.
My auto insurance policy excludes both from coverage.
I have to assume that the owners of the WTC either did not have the exclusion or sought extra protection after the 1993 bomb attack
Ted
TEd
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Radio today quoted a spokesman from the Insurance Information Institute (if I got the name right). In the course of a much longer discussion, he projected that future insurance policies "will have" such an exclusion. From which I deduce that a typical policy today would not have an exclusion which, properly read, would apply.
The institute's website appears to be www.iii.org, but that is not responding at this time.
BTW - I have little doubt that after WTC management experienced the 1993 bombing there, they made sure to have applicable insurance coverage (if indeed they had not had it before).
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<<I just got this from Capital Kiwi (thanks, friend):
...at the changing of the guard at Buck House yesterday the band played the AMERICAN national anthem as a mark of respect and tribute. It's the first time EVER that the band didn't play God Save The Queen.>>
It occurred to me today, to enjoy the irony of the Royal Guard playing an anthem which recalls the war of our liberation from the British Empire.
(There are a couple of theses lurking in that, but I was just enjoying the smile it the thought brought--and, anyway, bless them for it)
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Among the monuments left to photograph, the Empire State Building stands tall. But if you do stop to take a picture of it, you may notice something different near the top. The ring of twinkling lights is gone from the observation deck: there are no tourists there photographing you. The building has been left unilluminated at night since, I don’t even remember when it was, Monday? It would almost be comforting to suppose it were a sign of mourning, but one has to think it is a question of defense.
In the park are those who point it out on this second of loveliest days—but not many, it is relatively quiet in Midtown—this last and longest standing of rivalrous siblings. And where are they, all those hordes of visitors? Not on the streets. But there has been no egress from a newly sober Gotham. Ninth wonder of the world this, the withdrawal of the polyglot throng.
Most do not look long at the building, though. They prefer their books, a hand around their coffee, an arm around their love. Different sorts of comfort in the spectrum of that emotional intensity through which we pass in the course of a normal day. These comforts carry new meaning, now, in the very fact of their belonging to that spectrum. More than simple reminiscences of the ordinary, they are the—only seemingly—tentative taproots of imperative life.
And people do watch the building; I am sure, it is as a signal of that life.
Tomorrow, the Stock Exchange will reopen. The first one or two are bound to be madhouse days. Then things will settle into a semblance of the ordinary. For weeks, the invisible hand will play the shell game of prosperity or want beside a now workman-like search for bodies, evidence, the excavation of rubble. For years, if we are fortunate enough to have them left to number, the business community will work beside the terrible void in the skyline.
It will take more than good fortune, but diligence with which the ordinary will never again be quite so ordinary. And that is where I take heart in the 65% figure. It is not, for example, the resounding and nearly entire bigotry that met Al Smith when he campaigned against Hoover beyond the North East.
As a city, New York is far from innocent. We have been slavers. We have preached, from cloistered vantages, against almost every religion and ethnicity. But we have also welcomed them—ourselves. And if that welcome has often been exploitative, so, too, has it often been heartfelt. Queens, where Helen lives, is the most ethnically diverse landscape in the world.
In the course of my lifetime I have witnessed how, from some of the crimes we, as a nation, have perpetrated, we have begun to acquire a new sense of justice. Had Maverick not subjected the statistic to a sleight of hand—that is, were it even an authentic figure concerning an out and out call to violence, I would still find reason to take some sort of comfort in it. It is not 95%. And if we have learned so much as to quiet the call for blood that much, perhaps not all hope is lost.
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an article I read long ago written by Isaac Asimov in which he bemoaned the fact that the anthem in its entirety, including the more openly anti-British stanzas, is not sung more often.
A scene recalled from several years ago: George Bush Sr., then the President, stood at attention while a singer, accompanied by band, sang "America the Beautiful". Bush was quietly singing along, to all four verses, and a little lip-reading made it obvious he knew all the words. That song's lyrics, unlike our anthem's, are not bloodthirsty. One thought expessed, of note today:
America, America,
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul
In self-control,
Thy liberty in law.
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building has been left unilluminated at night since
NBC's coverage just ended with a shot of the Empire State Building - now proudly illuminated red white and blue at the top. The queen of the New York skyline sadly reigns again, reclaiming her status as the most recognizable skyscraper.
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I've been meaning to keep the number of these things to a limit, but I have to tell you about this extraordinary experience I had this evening. At about 6:00, my brother phoned to say there was a rally being held on the Promenade at Brooklyn Heights for Muslims and non-Muslims to show solidarity. By the time I arrived, people were already leaving, but the crowd was still substantial. The promenade offers a spectacular view (sorry, it's such a tempting redundancy) of lower Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge, as well as Governor's Island and the inner harbor and all the other islands in the inner harbor and the Verazzano bridge…you get the picture. A column of dust rises behind the buildings which once were footlights to the World Trade Center. Okay, you've had enough of these descriptions by now-I'm sure.
As I approached the Promenade proper, someone was singing "We Shall Overcome" over the p.a. system. I joined in heartily, but hardly anyone else did, there at the entrance. Then another singer sang something else I didn't know and then something I did know but couldn't sing in that key. And nothing happened after that.
After a while, I began to sing something, I think it's by Rav Nachman-at any rate, it's by a Jewish mystic, I believe, of the 18th or 19th Century (I believe-so, what else is new). The song is called "Kol HaOlam Ku-lo" I guess. It has a very simple lyric: "All the world is a very narrow bridge, and the main thing is not to fear, not to fear at all." I began just singing to myself. Standing on a park bench, in a crowd and sunglasses. But then the song carried me away and I sang it out. My eyes were shut and my legs were shaking.
When I finished, a small Jewish group nearby started singing "Heeneh ma tov" a very popular song from a Psalm of David: "Behold, how good it is [when] brothers sit together." After a while, that petered out and I began to sing "This Land is Your land." That finally got people going. We sang the two verses everyone knows and then looped back and did them again and finally threw in a couple of rounds of the chorus for good measure.
Then nobody could think of anything. My 'sister-in-law' suggested "Give Peace a Chance," but, come on, who knows the words or something? Well, we've been listening to the Star Spangled Banner a lot on the radio lately and I've been thinking about the lyrics.
Sorry, this needs a new paragraph. How the flag is *still there. And, after all, sullied as it may have been by the Vietnam War, the national anthem really isn't a war mongering song, it is about the battle of our independence. And if that makes you raise an eyebrow, I'd say I'm pretty much on the left, but I'm not orthodox. I'd been thinking about singing the Star Spangled Banner in front of the firehouse, anyway. In homage. So I sang it.
The objections came instantaneously. 'It is a war song.' Well, I'd started, and I wasn't about to stop. And here is the extraordinary part. I sang the national anthem and no one but my brother, in a display of solidarity with me, sang. Not only that, they said hostile things. And not only that, I watched them walk away from me. I wish I'd had my video camera. It was absolutely extraordinary. All of them walked away, and if they didn't walk away, they turned their backs.
I have no conclusions to draw from it, at the moment. But I think it was more sad than bizarre.
And it was very bizarre.
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dear inselpeter,
perhaps people didn't sing along to your rendition of ASSB because they, as many others, particularly in such a melting-pot as NYC, don't feel the need to support an upsurge in patriotism in a country already swelling at the breast with pride. Perhaps they feel the need to think about global solidarity rather than hum that old tune. Some might go so far as to say that we live in a post-nationalist world - which the worldwide reactions to the murders, seen by many as an issue of cosmopolitan import, seem to confirm.
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Dear Blligerentyouth,
I think my posts until now suggest my agreement with the substance of your reply. For obvious reasons, The Star Spangled Banner became an emblem, to many, of shame during the Vietnam War. I grew up during that era and, believe me, the song still makes me uncomfortable. But listening to it--actually, singing it to myself--yesterday, I heard not something new in it but something old. The anthem does not glorify war but pays homage to indomitable spirit, to knowing what you would die for and living for it. Not even "the rockets' red glare" glorifies war. It speaks of the mortal danger of being under attack and standing firm, surviving with the integrity of one's humanity. As I write this I also realize that Key was not writing about *our rockets, but the rockets of the British. He is writing of the irony, if you will, of that same indomitable spirit made apparent in adversity.
That spirit is not something I have really understood before, and it is fundamental. Regarding the question of will, I would suggest we may not, in certain ways, will to live: we have no choice in the matter. As Heidegger says, sort of, we are thrown into being. But we can will how we live--we can know what we live for. This is related to what I meant when I replied to bel that people are not inherently good. To be 'good' is to choose to be good, to know what you would die for, and live for it.
The tenacity of life is palpable on many levels here, these days. On both the 'rudimentary' level of "throwness" and fear of death, and on the levels I have suggested are the sacred illusion of humanity. It is an illusion, partly, because we are not born with it. We choose it.
Speaking for myself, and emotionally, I would have no problem seeing the criminals who killed these members of our, yes, cosmopolitan community put before the firing squad. That may well be a 'justified' emotion and an unjustifiable response. I can't really work it out right now. But there must be no more carnage.
The birth memorialized in The Star Spangled Banner is of a nation which, in spite of our bitter history, has been dedicated to the principle that all [men] are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights...
I know the above paragraph is rife with irony and susceptible to skeptical retort. In spite of all the carnage and injustice in our history, our country is not without nobility. In spite of our parochialism, our country is hugely cosmopolitan.
I remain uncomfortable singing the national anthem and, if I may, to do so publicly is an act of courage, not so much before others as before myself. I sing it to remember the good, long buried in the export--and domestic implementation--of violence and economic repression. And I sang it yesterday because, I hoped, we could sing it together: Muslim and non-Muslim to say "all of us belong here, and the guarantee of freedom belongs to us all."
Seeing all the flags sprouting, it is hard not to be concerned about nationalism. But in the wake of these events, we-here--seek symbols which unite us. It is hard to express just how important this is. Patriotism is fraught with difficulty and yet, we recognize will to stand by each other. This rift in time will pass, and symbols will be reburdened with there usual difficult meanings. The display of the flag--my displaying it--or singing the national anthem is without rancor. It is to memorialize, in what might be described as an existential sense, the very best this country has stood for. It is to live for freedom and the sanctity of life. At the very least, it is to try to step away from cynicism and endorse as something far deeper than rhetoric, the spirit we may preserve in our constitution.
As a final note, I am surprised I could write this. I am not even sure I agree with everything I've said. I do, however, think the orthodox rejection of this symbolism and adoption of that is, in its particular development, often as narrow-minded and divisive as the qualities it derides.
The crisis here produces some unusual thoughts.
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<<there is at least one other possibility..>>
This evening is Rosh Hashana, [one of] the Jewish new year[s]. We are in the month of Elul, "the days of awe," the period of national (in the ancient sense) penance.
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Dearest insel., You sweet thing, thank you for sharing so much with us--and please, keep it up, for as long as you want to, smoke descriptions and all. We can turn our televisions off and obtain some relief--you cannot, and if telling us here helps you any at all, Dear Heart, you just keep right on typing, until your fingers can't type any more. That was bizarre, that you were so scorned for singing the national anthem. I don't understand that, at all. Perhaps it was just me, perhaps it was my region, but---I don't recall there being a movement of criticism about the anthem, let alone that it's a "war song"--that is utterly ridiculous. I found a lovely site that describes how it came to be written. I'd love to put it all here, but it's just too long. The story of how the flag that Francis Scott Key saw came into being is neat. I, for one, get choked up just about every time I hear our national anthem, no matter the setting. http://www.usflag.org/francis.scott.key.html
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Oooh, I dunno. The song was written in the face of possible national annihilation by the British and begun under attack by them at that (thanks Jackie). I rather liked the irony of it being so popular in the UK right now ...  I must confess to amazement at the level of fellow-feeling there is towards the US by the British. I think that Tony Blair, overblown rhetoric and all, is really reflecting the British point of view, given what I've been hearing here in provincial, very, very provincial, Wellingborough.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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This link has pictures from around the world at American Embassies and other places. LOTS of pictures. May not be up long so ... http://www.fatwallet.com/thankyou.htm
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
It is hard to tell which has been longer, the day or the week. Or if time passes or just keeps welling up and pouring over you. I realized the blue and yellow weather is because we're in Elul. A lover's colors, could you see her sprite on virgin memory. If time passes or no, the rift between a week ago and now is limitless. And if the world adopts a phase of ordinary, it is only because you've forgotten it. You'd expect the terror if it weren't for that.
That grabs you by the throat and makes you panic.
That smashes the memorial of yesterdays autumn breezes like marble, concrete, steel, bone
That makes you want to flee,
To run
Away.
From the ominous portent of weather-to where?-like God's gnashing teeth. Inescapable.
I spent some hours today thoroughly convinced we would be annihilated in nuclear explosions within the week. Outside: two.
Not that, having regained some composure, I believe it's much more than a sissy bet.
Because it is possible, somehow, for corporate lawyers to discuss the disaster in terms of depositions postponed and hours' delays in transit without a moment's silence for the dead, because the city has managed to divide this small island so perfectly that somehow midtown offices don't get it. And the testament of municipal success is this profanity.
Conversely, it is possible to see the good in that.
I looked over the Post, a tabloid on whose first and fourth pages were columns police and firemen, the names of the known missing or dead.
--We are in a war with 5,000 casualties, and not one soldier fallen-
There was a crowd of well over 1,000 at Rosh Hashanah services this evening. At one point, the rabbi asked those who knew any missing or known dead to stand, if they wished, and say their names so that we might include them in our prayers. And they stood. One and another and another... And not all of them stopped with one name. But spoke two. Or three.
Flyers with pictures of the missing everywhere. Shrines with candles, flowers, writings erected at the base of light stanchions. Union Square is a carpet of flowersm flickering lights and common purpose. It is overwhelming, and it is easy to imagine this receding into an unrecoverable, distant past, and quickly, if the conflict escalates.
I awoke this morning at around 4:00. It was pointless to try to sleep, so I had some coffee, hit the keyboard and listened to the news. [Funny, I just wrote "noise" without realizing it.] The caster said Giulianni would be having his regular 8:00 staff meeting at City Hall. I decided I'd go down (it's not far from where I live) and join the well-wishers.
It was the first time I'd been below Canal Street since the disaster; only the area east of Broadway is accessible, and only to pedestrian traffic. The traders' grim determination in quality suits another manifestation of living imperative.
I saw one broken globe on a streetlight, but otherwise, the place is *clean. The streets around Foley Square, where the Courts are, were still wet from their last hosing. It was a gala, really.
Except for a photographer working for the AP, when I arrived at the guardhouse in front of City Hall, I was the only one there but City Hall officials. Someone told someone else they had to move the car because the mayor was coming. A clean grey minivan pulled up, and a man in matching suit and clambered out. I wasn't sure it was him, at first, but when I was, I applauded him. What is the sound of two hands clapping? He didn't know I was there, at first, then you I could see him hear me (please see Empathy thread) and her turned and smiled and gave me a thumbs up.
I gave him my best British stiff-upper lip grimace, and gave it to him back.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Re: Exclusions I don't think that I have ever seen a policy here that does cover "Acts of war, terrorism etc", so we have obviously had the exclusions for years. I was assured (but not reassured) by my insurance company that on a trip that I took over the weekend to Europe that I was not covered in the event of: "any consequence of war, invasion or act of foreign enemy hostilities (whether war be declared or not) civil war, rebellion, revolutions, insurection or military or usurped power." I understand that, if reports are true, whilst similar buildings in the City of London are not publicly insured for terrorist attack (there is some kind of re-insurance fund run by the government which covers acts of terrorism, I think), the WTC may have been. As the major re-insurer is Lloyds of London, they are expecting the previous record set by the Piper Alpha disaster to be exceeded. http://www.itn.co.uk/news/20010917/business/06lloyds.shtmlSee also: http://www.truthaboutlloyds.com/fraud/timeline.html for the implications to the re-insurance market.
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