Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10
#3654 06/28/00 02:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1
M
mushtaq Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1
Hello,

I'm curious why or how English lost its second person pronouns like thee, thou, and ye. Are there particular historical reasons or is it just a linguistic fluke?

Thanks!

Mushtaq


#3655 06/28/00 09:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
I wonder too, especially as "usted" and "vous" are still used in Spanish and French.

I was never quite sure when to "tu" and when to "usted" - its probably one of those things that makes a foreigner look quite rude in Spain.

Perhaps we lost them because we just weren't polite enough to want to keep them? Perhaps it was just that we had too many words?


#3656 06/28/00 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Apparently Quakers still use the term "thee" as in the example:
Perhaps thee has noticed the point in our Friends Journal on February 15 - Friend 1964.

Does anyone know if the term is still used?


#3657 06/29/00 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
B
addict
Offline
addict
B
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
>>Perhaps thee has noticed the point in our Friends Journal on February 15 - Friend 1964<<

I thought that was 'thou' as in
I, me, my, mine
thou, thee, thy, thine
he, him, his, his

etcetera. Or have I just been misled by 'me' and 'thee' sounding similar?

As for the Quakers, I also think they still use 'thou' and 'thee', but don't know any to ask!


#3658 06/29/00 11:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
Hail to thee, Jo and Bridget, from a 'quakerly' paulb whose wife is a Quaker. Certainly in Australia, the form 'thee' is not used in normal conversation but crops up occasionally in a more lighthearted sense. Incidentally one of the nice things about Quakers is that they do not use titles (Mr, Mrs etc); instead they use the whole name eg Dear John Smith. This applies to children as well, who will freely address adults by their full name. It sure beats the status thing!


#3659 06/29/00 02:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
You would say "Fare thee well" so the quotation fits in with that usage.

I tend to ignore Mr & Mrs (I'm a Ms.!!!) and prefer to use whole names - perhaps I should be a Quaker.


#3660 06/29/00 04:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
> I thought that was 'thou' as in
I, me, my, mine

arrrgggh! I listened to the "Let It Be" CD the other day and ever since I've had one of the songs stuck in my head (is there a word for that?), and now this.

All through the day I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
All through the night I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine,
I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine.
All I can hear I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Everyone's saying it,
All through the day I me mine.
All through your life I me mine.


[apologies to all who end up with this stuck in their heads]


#3661 06/29/00 06:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 18
A
stranger
Offline
stranger
A
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 18
Isn't that what's known as a (not an) "haunting tune"? But that doesn't quite convey how annoying it can be... However, the German word for a song you can't get out of your head sure does: "Ohrwurm". Yuk.


#3662 06/29/00 06:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
I cannae say why we have lost the second person pronouns, when both the Latin languages and the Germanic have kept them. I'm curious and will nose around.
Meanwhile, "thou" is the nominative, equivalent to "I". "Thee" is the objective, equivalent to "me". "Fare thee well" would be parsed: {May it} fare {to} thee well.
And as for the Ohrwurm, I'd rather have a bookworm.


#3663 06/29/00 07:02 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 112
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 112
>>I was never quite sure when to "tu" and when to "usted"<<

When I was learning French at school, I was taught that "tu" was the familiar form of address - to a friend, peer, or sometimes to one who was perceived as "inferior" (a servant, a student, etc.)

"Vous" would be the opposite - to one's superior.

I suppose the same rule would apply to Spanish.


Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,580
Members9,187
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Karin, JeffMackwood, artguitar, Jim_W, Rdbuffalo
9,187 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 332 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,713
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,931
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5