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Joined: Jun 2000
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1 |
Hello,
I'm curious why or how English lost its second person pronouns like thee, thou, and ye. Are there particular historical reasons or is it just a linguistic fluke?
Thanks!
Mushtaq
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
I wonder too, especially as "usted" and "vous" are still used in Spanish and French.
I was never quite sure when to "tu" and when to "usted" - its probably one of those things that makes a foreigner look quite rude in Spain.
Perhaps we lost them because we just weren't polite enough to want to keep them? Perhaps it was just that we had too many words?
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
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Apparently Quakers still use the term "thee" as in the example: Perhaps thee has noticed the point in our Friends Journal on February 15 - Friend 1964.
Does anyone know if the term is still used?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
>>Perhaps thee has noticed the point in our Friends Journal on February 15 - Friend 1964<<
I thought that was 'thou' as in I, me, my, mine thou, thee, thy, thine he, him, his, his
etcetera. Or have I just been misled by 'me' and 'thee' sounding similar?
As for the Quakers, I also think they still use 'thou' and 'thee', but don't know any to ask!
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
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Hail to thee, Jo and Bridget, from a 'quakerly' paulb whose wife is a Quaker. Certainly in Australia, the form 'thee' is not used in normal conversation but crops up occasionally in a more lighthearted sense. Incidentally one of the nice things about Quakers is that they do not use titles (Mr, Mrs etc); instead they use the whole name eg Dear John Smith. This applies to children as well, who will freely address adults by their full name. It sure beats the status thing!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
You would say "Fare thee well" so the quotation fits in with that usage.
I tend to ignore Mr & Mrs (I'm a Ms.!!!) and prefer to use whole names - perhaps I should be a Quaker.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
> I thought that was 'thou' as in I, me, my, mine
arrrgggh! I listened to the "Let It Be" CD the other day and ever since I've had one of the songs stuck in my head (is there a word for that?), and now this.
All through the day I me mine, I me mine, I me mine. All through the night I me mine, I me mine, I me mine. I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine, I-me-me mine. All I can hear I me mine, I me mine, I me mine. Everyone's saying it, All through the day I me mine. All through your life I me mine.
[apologies to all who end up with this stuck in their heads]
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 18 |
Isn't that what's known as a (not an) "haunting tune"? But that doesn't quite convey how annoying it can be... However, the German word for a song you can't get out of your head sure does: "Ohrwurm". Yuk.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
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I cannae say why we have lost the second person pronouns, when both the Latin languages and the Germanic have kept them. I'm curious and will nose around. Meanwhile, "thou" is the nominative, equivalent to "I". "Thee" is the objective, equivalent to "me". "Fare thee well" would be parsed: {May it} fare {to} thee well. And as for the Ohrwurm, I'd rather have a bookworm.
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member
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member
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>>I was never quite sure when to "tu" and when to "usted"<<
When I was learning French at school, I was taught that "tu" was the familiar form of address - to a friend, peer, or sometimes to one who was perceived as "inferior" (a servant, a student, etc.)
"Vous" would be the opposite - to one's superior.
I suppose the same rule would apply to Spanish.
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