CapK's trip journal entry on Michigan, and his commentary on the misnomer "Lake" as applied to our beloved Great Lakes reminded me of the controversy caused a couple of years ago when federal legislation designated Lake Champlain as a "Great Lake." Sometimes, the hoi polloi pays more attention to semantics that we expect.
The point of the designation was to afford funding to studies conducted under the National Sea Grant program, but people in the (real) Great Lakes states were completely offended by the idea that Lake Champlain -- a beautiful body of water, no one disputes, but only 108 miles long and 12 miles across at its widest point -- could qualify as a Great Lake.
The federal legislation was quickly amended to allocate funds to Lake Champlain without called it a "Great Lake," and everybody was happy.
I have family who live up in northern Ohio and we sometimes go up to Lake Erie and take a ferry to one of the little islands off the "coast" of Ohio. One of the posters inside the ferry said that Lake Erie has a current in a constant direction (East) technically making it a river. This seems a little odd but it makes sense because the water flows from Lake Superior through the others to the St. Lawrence River. If this is true then Lakes Huron and Ontario would be rivers as well, right? Or is this not a correct designation despite the constant current?
Don't know Jazzo...seems to me every lake is part of a watershed that involves some kind of steady flow, and usually acts as the headwaters and/or basin for a river or rivers. In New Jersey our "Great Lake," Lake Hopatcong in Sussex County (NW corner of the state) is a glacial lake that becomes the Musconetcong River and also is the basin for numerous feeder streams. So there is some flow involved. This scenario holds forth for all other lakes I know from a long and vigorous fishing career. But, then, when I look at the map, it always does occur to me that Lake Erie is more a part of the St. Lawrence Seaway than a Great Lake. But water always moves from somewhere and to somewhere as part of a watershed. So I think that a lake, although defined as "standing water," is really just a slow and expansive river. Just as when a beaver dam obstructs a portion of a stream or river, the slow-moving body of "standing" water is said to be a pond...but it's really still a part of the river.
This Great Lakes discussion reminds me... Years ago, Michigan license plates used the slogan "Great Lakes State," and a columnist for one of the Detroit newspapers commented that we should come up with a better one because there are other states that have great lakes! Seemed to me at the time that he missed the point.
Sparteye, thanks for that info. I'm especially interested since I'll be living near one of them in two weeks. I forget which one, but I'm sure you or Faldage will remind me. Or either, I'll find out when I get there, one.
Max, I am in awe of your metric conversion
And speaking of the HOMES, wasn't it in one of them that somebody found the bigget living organism? Or was that in Zild? Or neither?
(Sigh) After several tries with the math I admit failure. Which one is the largest? Never can tell when the Question-formulaters for "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" will peruse the Board - again - and ask the question. Geography appears to be an area that often stumps contestants. I am sure they are lurking as, for one instance, there was a question about Luddites not long after "our" discussion on the subject!
>every lake is part of a watershed that involves some kind of steady flow
every "every" does have its exception, much to the consternation of some North Dakota farmers; see these links regarding Devil's Lake, ND (it's where I grew up), whose eponymous lake has increased in size from 75 acres to 75,000 acres in the last 65 years -- most of that in the last 5 years.
the great lakes are not only big on top (surface area) but they are very deep too, the shallowest, lake Erie averages about 200 feet deep, and Superior, 1,300 feet deep. the EPA web site-- Sparteye's links above link to it--have lots of details..
Whitman O'Neill notes that NJ's "Great Lake" is a glacial lake. Maryland's Great Lake is actually man-made and less than 100 years old! Deep Creek Lake, the largest lake in the state, is located in the mountains in the westernmost end of the state (about 4 miles from W.Va in places and about 40 miles from Pittsburgh). It was created by a power company in the 1920's by damming streams and feeders to the Youghioheny River in between the various mountains in the area, creating a very deep spider-shaped lake with considerable shoreline but no huge superficies. A couple years ago, the power co., about to go out of business, announced it would sell the lake, which created much consternation since it's a very popular vacation and retirement spot and everyone was worried some developer with deep pockets would buy it and ruin the whole area. Fortunately, the state stepped in, seized it by eminent domain, and bought it. Thus we have the very strange fact of a state's largest lake not only quite new and artificial, but an object of commerce.
every "every" does have its exception and thanks for your sanctioning use of quotation marks, O Exhalted Leader!
Thanks for the great links, tsuwm! I'm amazed you had this information at your fingertips to respond to this thread! How so? I did notice, however, that both Devil's Lake and the midwestern lake mentioned once had outlets since filled-in from disuse. There also may be some landlocked mountain lakes of small acreage...but most of these are spring-fed and create brooks or brooklets as outlets, so they go into the watershed-flow column.
Question-Formulators for "Who Wants To be A Millionaire"?
You mean we're all working to keep Regis Philbin in six-figure salaries?!?!?!...and nary a dime to show for it!? Not to mention being used as his "formulator's" cash cows...I say to them what I say to the sea gulls: go away and work for your supper, you lazy birds!
I'm amazed you had this information at your fingertips to respond to this thread! How so? I did notice, however, that both Devil's Lake and the midwestern lake mentioned once had outlets since filled-in from disuse.
as I mentioned, I once lived there, and my mother still gets the local paper, so my <ahem> natural interest is spring fed. [and specifically, a google of >"Devil's Lake" flooding< sufficed nicely]. and, as to the outlet, of course the lake will continue to rise until it finds its current natural outlet -- I think they've said it will take another meter, but that will flood more thousands of acres of farmland (and woe betide the town, as well).
"Lake Superior is the largest of the Great Lakes in surface area and volume, and could contain all the other Great Lakes plus three more lakes the size of Lake Erie.
But Superior is approximately superior to the rest, :)according to the numbers given above. It is ~56k sq miles (143k sq. km) compared to 37k sq mi for Huron. I suspect the actual square milage of the three biggest "inland seas" is fairly close, given their geometry.
Cheers, Bryan
Cheers, Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Who Wants to be a Millionaire already used the question of the biggest Great lake and there was a bit of a controversy. Superior is not both the biggest and deepest. The contestant answered Superior to the question, but Millionaire had Michigan (I think) as the correct answer because it's the deepest. After the did more research on it they let the guy come back on the show to make up for the money that he didn't get to win.
Huh. Jazz, my atlas says that Lake Michigan's maximum depth is 923 feet, while Lake Superior's is 1,329. Total area is: Michigan = 22,400 sq miles; Superior = 31,820. And *everybody* here knows that Superior is the largest, so I can't imagine what the Millionaire researchers were thinking.
Besides, didn't they pay any attention to the name?
The maximum depth is probably a worse measure than the average depth of the lake, though. A reasonably shallow lake might have a miniature abyss, which has a greater maximum depth than another lake which is uniformly quite deep. Then which lake is bigger? The intuitive answer is the one with the uniformly larger depth, even though stats like "maximum depth" will make it sound like the first lake is bigger!
Besides, didn't they pay any attention to the name?
See, I'm pretty sure we were taught that Superior was the biggest of the five, which was one of those few geographical factoids which was easy to remember!
What you need is someone to work out the actual volume of the lakes. And I remember reading that Lake Baikal is supposed to be the deepest of the fresh water lakes somewhere. Was this wrong? Don't have time to LIU.
We're currently in Chattanooga, of all places, and they're claiming to have the mostest of everything ...
I have this vague idea that Lake Baikal is supposed to have shrunk dramatically in recent years because of so much water having been taken for industry from the rivers that feed it.
Dear Bingley: I think you might be thinking of the Aral sea as having been destroyed with diversion of water for agriculture. Lake Baikal hasn't been spoiled yet. I doubt that there is much agriculture in that part of Siberia.
Baikal, Lake, lake, southern Siberian Russia; with a maximum depth of 1637 m (5371 ft), it is the deepest lake in the world and is estimated to contain approximately one-fifth of all the earth's fresh surface water. The lake has an area of 31,468 sq km (12,150 sq mi), and it has about 1963 km (about 1220 mi) of shoreline, making it the third largest lake in Asia, and the largest freshwater lake, in terms of surface area, on the Eurasian continent. The crescent-shaped lake is about 621 km (about 386 mi) long and varies in width from about 14 to 80 km (about 9 to 50 mi). The lake is fed by the Selenge, Barguzin, and Verkhnaya Angara rivers and by more than 300 mountain streams. The only outlet is the lower Angara, which flows west from the lake into the Yenisey River. The Baikal, Barguzin, and other mountain ranges surround the lake, rising on all shores except the southeastern Selenge delta. Lake Baikal has several islands, the largest of which is Olkhon. Nizhneangarsk and Listvyanka are ports on the lake. Baikal is known for the remarkable clarity of its waters and for the great diversity of its plant and animal life; the majority of species found in the lake are endemic. The sturgeon, salmon, and freshwater-seal fisheries of the lake are valuable, and large quantities of other fish are also caught. Petroleum wells and mineral and hot springs are found in the vicinity. The southern shores of the lake are inhabited by the Buryats.
"Baikal, Lake," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 98 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1997 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Dr. Bill - I concur, the problem Bingley describes sounds like the Aral Sea. In fact, it has shrunk so much, exposing so much former lake-bed, that the region is experiencing serious air quality problems as a result of all the windblown dust. Nasty.
Aslo - thanks for the Baikal info - I've always been intrigued by the place, and almost had an opportunity to take a work trip there, but... In any case, it's fascinating that one single lake is estimated to contain one-fifth of the fresh surface water on the planet - now that's Superior!
I have friends who were in Istanbul at the time of the big earthquake two years ago. They will quite emphatically remind you that there is a big crack there between two continental plates. Turkey itself is a country situated on two continents. Also, the predictions about where the plates are moving indicate that in a couple of million years there will be no Turkey. It will be squashed underneath those other two plates. (Somewhere on the web there is probably a good picture. Here, try this map of earthquake frequency (red) and continental plates (yellow): http://atlas.gc.ca/english/quick_maps/image_collection/img_collection_view7_e.html)
TEd writes [hurrah!] >Maryland is the only state in the union that has no natural lakes. Every one is man-made.
I didn't actually know that, TEd, although I did know that there are damn few lakes in MD and that the few there are (other than Deep Creek Lake) would more likely be called ponds in states where they have real lakes. We make up for it with the Chesapeake Bay, which is like having a large lake running right up the middle of the state and dividing it into two halves, which it did very effectively until the early 1950s, when the first bridge was built spanning the Bay. Up until then, since the mid-17th century, you got from one side to the other either by boat or ferry or by going up and around. Of course the Bay is not quite like a lake, being brackish to a greater or less extent depending on how far north you are, and subject to the tides.
Dear BobY: Just to quibble, I remember from having lived part of 1937 in Port Deposit, that Route 1 crossed the Susquehanna atop the Conowingo Dam. So it was an alternative to using the ferry from Havre de Grace.
Are you honest, Max? Does the continental United States now embrace Buenos Aires, as well as Vancouver?
While we're on the subject of land masses. Several years ago, Japan attempted to establish a 200 mile limit around two small artificial islands which it had built in rich Pacific fishing grounds and over which it declared sovereignty. The islands were about the size of bed springs, and there was some question whether they were large enough to qualify. In the end, as I remember, the effort failed because international law doesn't recognize artificial islands for this purpose.
Dear IP: Over ten years ago there was a rogue radio station built on what had been a British anti-aircraft gunnery installation perhaps the size of a tennis court somewhere in the Channel.. The owner tried to declare the "island" a sovreign territory. He did not get taken seriously.
There was a report on Sealand on NPR the last day or two. Their royals (and who there isn't one?) seem very happy beneath the umbrella the British military. But as their defense model appears, with respect to the nuclear umbrella, appears similar to France's, isn't their business model really very similar to 'that' of offshore banks operating in other British protectorates, e.g. the Caymans, or am I way off base?
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