Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#36024 07/20/2001 4:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
In a discussion of business jargon, the word "benchmark" was used. It is also very common in computer jargon.
I was dumbfounded when I tried to look it up in Webster New World dictionary and got " no definition is available for this word." So I looked it up in the Cambridge dictionary;
benchmark noun [C usually sing]
a mark made on something such as a post used as a point for measuring things by
FIGURATIVE Despite her behaviour off-stage her performances set a new benchmark
(=standard) for singers throughout the world.

benchmark adjective [not gradable]
This is a benchmark case for legal history.
( Cambridge International Dictionary of English )

But that definition is also inadequate. On US Geodetic Survey maps, there are small black squares indicating location of benchmarks, which are cement posts with top at ground level, with a very small mark on a bronze insert giving very accurate location of surveyor's mark, and the map indicates longitude and latitude figures and elevation above sea level. These can be used when needed by surveyors, as they are as accurate as state of art permitted.
So, by analogy, a benchmark in computer terms means an accurate standard that can be used for making comparisons.
Please make additions or corrections.


#36025 07/20/2001 4:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
You gotta get you a better dictionary, Dr. Bill.

Try http://www.bartleby.com/61/35/B0183500.html for benchmark.

Basically, you're right about what it means in computer jargon anyway.


#36026 07/20/2001 4:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
speaking of better dictionaries, the online version of MWCD, in keeping up with the AHD as hosted by barleby.com, now also has audio pronunciations. fyi and fwiw.


#36027 07/20/2001 4:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
a. A surveyor's mark cut in some durable material, as a rock, wall, gate-pillar, face of a building, etc., to indicate the starting, closing, or any suitable intermediate, point in a line of levels for the determination of altitudes over the face of a country. It consists of a series of wedge-shaped incisures, in the form of the ‘broad-arrow’ with a horizontal bar through its apex. When the spot is below sea-level, as in mining surveys, the mark is inverted.
[The horizontal bar is the essential part, the broad arrow being added (originally by the Ordnance Survey) as an identification. In taking a reading, an angle-iron <angle> is held with its upper extremity inserted in the horizontal bar, so as to form a temporary bracket or bench for the support of the levelling-staff, which can thus be placed on absolutely the same base on any subsequent occasion. Hence the name.]
1842 Francis Dict. Arts, Bench marks, in surveying, fixed points left on a line of survey for reference at a future time, consisting of cuts in trees, pegs driven into the ground, etc. 1883 G. J. Symons Brit. Rainf. 134 A series of levels has been taken from the gauge to an Ordnance bench mark.

b. transf. and fig. A point of reference; a criterion, touchstone.



#36028 07/20/2001 4:57 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
tsuwm's fancy book offers "touchstone" as a synonym:

(from atomica)A hard black stone, such as jasper or basalt, formerly used to test the quality of gold or silver by comparing the streak left on the stone by one of these metals with that of a standard alloy.
An excellent quality or example that is used to test the excellence or genuineness of others: “the qualities of courage and vision that are the touchstones of leadership” (Henry A. Kissinger). See synonyms at standard.



*Neat*!!! So that's why the movie folks chose that name; i've never thought to wonder.


#36029 07/21/2001 3:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
<<I was dumbfounded when I tried to look it up in Webster New World dictionary and got " no definition is available for this word." So I looked it up in the Cambridge dictionary>>

You've found a dictionary benchmark, Dr. Bill.


#36030 07/23/2001 3:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
veteran
Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
Allied to the concept of the benchmark is the landmark, now chiefly understood to mean a notable building, landscape feature or other visual piece of notabilia by which a location can be remembered or found. Originally, however, landmarks were some sort of small marker, as permanent as possible, such as a pile of stones, which marked the boundaries of one's property. They were, of course, considered to be almost sacred; the Levitical laws in the Old Testament forbid removing your neighbor's landmark. There was once a custom called "beating the bounds". The head of the family, once a year or so, would take his oldest sons and a birch switch and they would tour the bounds of the property; whenever they reached a landmark, he would beat the sons so they would remember its location.


#36031 07/23/2001 3:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Now there's a mnemonic device I'll not be using.


#36032 07/23/2001 7:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
The Rector also wished us well and explained the politically incorrect origins of the expression
‘beating of the bounds’. The boys of the parish were apparently beaten on the boundary stones
during the walk, so that they would remember where the boundary was. Nowadays of course we
would have to beat both boys and girls.

Dear Faldage: you have wounded me deeply. (almost halfway through my thin epidermis) to suggest I would present an Urban Legend as fact. Boo-hoo-hoo. I went back and got a second one this time wirh URL. For the doubting Davids.


http://www.feltwellnorfolk.freeserve.co.uk/written/beating_bounds.htm

Gradually the religious side of these perambulations died out and they degenerated more or less into an occasion for practical
jokes and horse-play. Boys would be flogged at the boundaries to fix them in their memories; or ducked in the river if it
constituted a boundary. The boys were generally compensated for their troubles; the following items are from the Church
Accounts for 1670 at Chelsea:-

There are many URLs about ceremonial "beating the bounds" of large pieces of property in England.






#36033 07/23/2001 7:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
There are many URLs about ceremonial "beating the bounds" of large pieces of property in England

I've scanned the first several of these without finding reference to beating of anyone, much less eldest sons. I suspect this is another piece of internet legend up there with the old Rule of Thumb canard (qua qua).


#36034 07/23/2001 7:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
FWIW, here's a link from my favorite "Is this true?" site, about.com's Urban Legends site (OK, so it's a rural legend. Or is it? Decide for yourselves)

http://search.about.com/fullsearch.htm?terms="beating+the+bounds"&ch=science&Action.x=9&Action.y=12

I guess this is gonna make the window W-I-D-E (sorry, wow)

Why a duck?


#36035 07/23/2001 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
I guess this is gonna make the window W-I-D-E (sorry, wow)
No, it's all fine at least right now!

Re: Bounds -- In our town the Selectmen are required to Walk the Bounds at least every 10 years. Takes some planning as we abut four towns and selectmen from both towns have to be present ... A couple of the bounds can be reached only by boat in summer as the "bound"-ary is in the salt water marsh!



#36036 07/23/2001 11:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
wow,
Are Selectmen like city council members or Bored of Reps? And what are the women called?


#36037 07/24/2001 12:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
And what are the women called?

Wopersons.






#36038 07/24/2001 12:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Since it looks like this beating of the young lads is a recent perversion of the original (from *my reading of the text) I claim a moral victory.


#36039 07/24/2001 12:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Faldage: I'm not sure how you claim a "moral victory". I remember reading about beating the boys at the boundary markers in England over fifty years ago, so it is far from a recent invention. The stories made it clear that it was a very old custom.To be sure it is now more honored in the breach than in the observance.


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Recent is a relative term, Dr. Bill. According to this site (http://www2.prestel.co.uk/rose220/sopm/Landbounds2000.htm) the custom of beating the bounds is over 750 years old. Fifty years ago is recent.


#36041 07/24/2001 1:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Are Selectmen like city council members or Bored of Reps?
Close enough.

And what are the women called?
Selectmen ...
Louisa Woodman settled that for us when she noted that even though it was fashionable, she had no intention of changing her name to Woodperson! Think I mentioned that before, din' I ?


Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
addict
Offline
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
Beating the bounds is indeed a very ancient custom. The web page listed above by Dr. Bill mentions church accounts dated 1670 which list compensation to the "boys that were whipt". While not conclusive, that is not the normal stuff of urban/rural legend. I have heard it said (can't remember where) that the beating was to indicate to outsiders what they would get if they ventured across the lines uninvited. As there were usually no real takers, they had to pay local urchins to play the role of the invader.

Rod


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
"boys that were whipt".

Wull, OK. All I know is me n my da started out to beat the bounds of Chicago in my yoot an he never done beat *me.


#36044 07/24/2001 8:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Yet, yer yoot is *all but invisible!


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Faldage: I had not learned to read 750 years ago.


Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Dear Bill - don't feel upset by this: nor had many other people at that time.

The cost of handwritten books was partly the cause (there is an economic reason for everything in history )


Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
(there is an economic reason for everything in history )
CapK would agree with you on this one, Rhuby.

The cost of handwritten books was partly the cause
This is what I learned from the presenter who demonstrated the model of the Gutenberg press--that the sudden low cost of books led to the spread of literacy.


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
wwh
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
" (there is an economic reason for everything in history )"

When Adam delved, and Eve span, Where then was Alan Greenspan?


#36049 07/26/2001 1:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
When Adam delved, and Eve span, Where then was Alan Greenspan?

Good one Dr. Bill!


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
black death (the plague) helped too, lots of people died, and all their old clothes became rags--

not only did printing get easier, paper (new rag paper, an invention brought back from arabia (muslims) by the returning crusaders) was suddenly cheap too!



Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,916
Posts230,422
Members9,211
Most Online17,319
Apr 8th, 2026
Newest Members
Boo boo kitty fu, peterreineck, Peripatetic Toad, JerryC, blvd
9,211 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 11,238
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,974
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2026 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.1