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#35942 07/20/2001 10:31 AM
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Ok. I gamely swallowed dexterous as yesterday's WAD. As a proud southpaw, I figured I could take a little perpetuation of the old myths and stereotypes that have served to hold us back. Then today I awake to ambisinister.* This is carrying things too far! Anu, how gauche! pmf®

Lefties of the world, unite! er... who else is left-handed out there?

-----
*Ænigma wants [ambition]]


the is firmly in cheek


#35943 07/20/2001 11:09 AM
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#35944 07/20/2001 11:34 AM
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Dieu et mon gauche!

How adroit of you!


#35945 07/20/2001 3:20 PM
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Lefties of the world, unite! er... who else is left-handed out there?

i'll happily admit to it, provided you post the query over in Animal Safari, where it belongs. [d.h. e]





#35946 07/22/2001 8:37 PM
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another right-thinkin' individuhul, am I too, E, so ferget them as was left behind in all this creativituh


#35947 07/26/2001 8:31 AM
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I'm left-handed, but my right hand is forced to operate a mouse, change gear while driving, bow my cello, strum my guitar, use right-handed scissors etc. So am I still left-handed? Only barely.


#35948 07/26/2001 1:32 PM
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Dear BY: Do you have left handed hammers, monkey wrenches, and saws?


#35949 07/26/2001 3:39 PM
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BY, what's to prevent you from stringing your cello the other way (if it would help) and bowing with your left hand? I believe I've seen a cellist do just that.


#35950 07/26/2001 4:02 PM
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stringing your cello the other way

But, as with most string instruments, the fretting hand requires at least as much agility as the other one. So why is the standard method of playing considered right-handed?


#35951 07/26/2001 4:29 PM
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If the strings on a cello were reversed, because the tension on the strings is different, and some of the internal structures are not symmetrical, the tone of the instrument might be degraded. Also the nut at the top of the keyboard is asymetrical, and would have to be changed.


#35952 07/26/2001 4:38 PM
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It seems from Dr. Bill's response that you need to be fretting more about the nut above the keyboard (or behind the cello?)


#35953 07/26/2001 4:45 PM
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On restringing a stringed instrument. If what Dr. Bill says is true (as I'm sure it is) about the structure of a cello, I would worry more about warping or even cracking the instrument than degrading the tone. If a piano is left untuned for a very long period, you can't get it back into tune at one retuning because you will put too much tension on structures which have adapted themselves to new conditions and aren't flexible enough to take the pressure of the strings at the correct tension. It has to be done in small increments over months and it may be impossible to ever get it back in tune. My mother was greatly put out when I declined to take her piano when she moved into a retirement community; it hadn't been tuned for 20 years and would have been a white elephant to me.


#35954 07/26/2001 8:18 PM
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#35955 07/26/2001 11:25 PM
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Max,
I thought everything was already counter-clockwise where you live? No wait, it's the other way around....


#35956 07/27/2001 5:25 AM
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Wednesday's Webshots Word of the Day was:

Ambilevous: \am_bi_LE_vus\, n: 1. Left-handed on both sides; clumsy.

Potential surgeons who are ambilevous should really consider another occupation!



Do we really need two words for this?

Bingley


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#35957 07/27/2001 10:29 AM
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Faldage writes: the fretting hand requires at least as much agility as the other one.

True, but the right hand requires more strength. It's kind of like the knife and fork business: once you learn it one way it doesn't make much difference - nonetheless, stringed instruments are always bowed, plucked or strummed with the right hand, indicating that favouritism by early players and/or craftsmen.

BYB suggests: stringing the cello the other way

Then I'll have to become a soloist, because I'm going to look pretty silly in the second row of the orchestra with my left arm going up against dozens of right arms. To be blunt though, I wouldn't be able to play.
I know McCartney was one of the first to string his guitar round the left-handed way. Since then many have followed in his footsteps (e.g. Kurt Cobain). As far as I know, celli (or cellos) are made completely symmetrically, which means there wouldn't be a problem with stringing one round the other way. So long as you have a fresh instrument the tone should be okay.

Max demands: Get yourself a pair of left-handed scissors, BY.

You know I should, but then again, I never have/find those utensils when I needs them. One that's worth buying is a left-handed potato peeler. I must say, I have noticed a positive increase in the amount of bi-handed kitchen instruments lately - so things seem to be getting a little better. [clicking 'Continue' with my right index finger]




#35958 07/27/2001 11:22 AM
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Do we really need two words for this?

Indeed, Bingley! (harrumph®)

Meanwhile, what is the etymology of 'ambilevous'?


#35959 07/27/2001 12:31 PM
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Do we really need two words for this?

Indeed. Let's vote. We'll send the results to James Murray.


#35960 07/27/2001 12:46 PM
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>We'll send the results to James Murray.

he also is still dead.
[sotto voce] madman...

etymology:
f. L. amb(i)- both + læv-us left + -ous.]
As it were, left-handed on both sides; the opposite of ambidexter. rare
1646 Sir T. Browne Pseud. Ep. 191 Againe, some are+Ambilevous or left handed on both sides. 1879 Syd. Soc. Lex., Ambilævous, Having left hands only; that is, clumsy.


ed. note: pay no attention to the odd spelling.


as to having two(2) words, we have no one to blame except those old Latins:

[f. L. amb(i)- both + sinister left + -ous.]
= ambilævous.
1863 W. P. Lennox Biog. Remin. I. 63 In wedlock, he [Prince of Wales]+was certainly more than ambi-sinistrous.


ed. note: if it comes to a vote, wouldn't the latter win hands down from that citation?!

#35961 07/27/2001 2:05 PM
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What's the *fundamental difference between sinister and lævus? Where's Cicero when you need him?


#35962 07/27/2001 2:10 PM
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>What's the *fundamental difference between sinister and lævus?

perhaps sinister came to have a more... well... *sinister connotation, and they needed something more neutral.


#35963 07/27/2001 2:56 PM
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yeahbut. Where d'you find the left-handed potatoes?


#35964 07/27/2001 3:38 PM
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I am interested in left handed tools as a part of the interest of making thing for the users and not viceversa.
So , if you buy left handed scissors as a gift for a left handed friend, you are in fact adding in your culture and society a small seed of tolerance and respect for people as they are - and not as they "should" be.

And I would like to do this for my friends , but I have no idea about where to find them. Can anyone help me ?


#35965 07/27/2001 4:02 PM
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http://www.thelefthand.com/ is one example.

http://inex.itas.net/lefthanded/shop/home.asp is another.

A quick google on something like "left-handed tools" will surely throw out lots of good suggestions.

#35966 07/29/2001 3:19 AM
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Then, of course, there's the expression two left hands meaning clumsy...shouldn't a left-hander say "I've got two right hands?

BY says bi-handed

Us USn's are more apt to use one of those phrases from baseball, switch-hitter, for this. Which also brings us to the term (and big YART) southpaw which is entitled to a token appearance on this thread.

Fret discussions have me down right now, as I injured my fret hand at work and am unable to play the guitar properly...and it may not be temporary. I may have to relearn to play McCartney style...left-handed! Guess that'd be a chore after all these years...


#35967 07/29/2001 1:57 PM
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Down in Maine, they used to have an expression for chronically tardy people: they had three hands. The third was a little behind hand.


#35968 07/29/2001 7:11 PM
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There is a "symbiotic" reason for strings to be thicker for lower tunings. A thicker string provides more surface area and therefore more raw sound (presence) as needed for a listener to hear tones as the same "volume" (even thought they are not). A thicker string also povides the necessary physics to compensate for the different tension that would be required to apply to strings to achieve different notes... usually more tension for a higher note... yet a thinner string requires less tension to achieve that note... so the tension across strings/bridges are (theoretically) equal. As for reality...well...

In countries that drive on the (left) opposite side of the raod as USn's do (on the right) are the operation pedals arranged opposite as well... making then from right to left... clutch-brake-gas? Are all cars alike. Where's our Ruby?


#35969 07/29/2001 7:58 PM
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BY says bi-handed

Us USn's are more apt to use one of those phrases from baseball, switch-hitter, for this.

Hmmmm. These days, if somebody tells me that someone is a switch-hitter, and we are not speaking of baseball, I'm likely to understand that the person is bi, but having nothing to do with manual dexterity.


#35970 07/29/2001 8:01 PM
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"There is a "symbiotic" reason for strings to be thicker for lower tunings. A thicker string provides more
surface area and therefore more raw sound (presence) as needed for a listener to hear tones as the
same "volume" (even thought they are not). A thicker string also povides the necessary physics to
compensate for the different tension that would be required to apply to strings to achieve different
notes... usually more tension for a higher note... yet a thinner string requires less tension to achieve
that note... so the tension across strings/bridges are (theoretically) equal. As for reality...well."..

Dear musick: with fear and trembling consciousness of my ignorance of music, may I observe that it is not only the diameter of the low pitched strings that is important. The lower pitched strings are usually wound with fine metal wire to increase their mass per unit length. The diameter is only one factor in determing pitch.


#35971 07/29/2001 8:17 PM
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I thought there might be an etymological connection between "left" and "levo", but my dictionary does not confirm this.I think a better dictionary might.
eft1 7left8
adj.
5ME (Kentish) var. of lift < OE lyft, weak, akin to EFris luf, weak6
1 a) designating or of that side of one‘s body which is toward the west when one faces north, the side of the less-used hand in most people b) designating or of the corresponding side of anything c) closer to the left side of a person directly before and facing the thing mentioned or understood !the top left drawer of a desk"
2 of the side or bank of a river on the left of a person facing downstream
3 of the political left; liberal or radical

It is also interesting that in science matters, I have never seen "sinister" used, always "levo"


#35972 07/29/2001 8:27 PM
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wwh - Yes! I alluded to "mass" by saying that thickness provides the (opportunity for) "necessary physics"... Thanks for the clarification for all!


#35973 07/29/2001 9:06 PM
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musick asks: In countries that drive on the (left) opposite side of the raod as USn's do (on the right) are the operation pedals arranged opposite as well... making then from right to left... clutch-brake-gas? Are all cars alike?


http://www.travel-library.com/general/driving/drive_which_side.html

I've had this bookmarked forever, hoping it would be useful some day. Thanks, Keven.


#35974 07/29/2001 9:38 PM
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Thank YOU for the link!

I'll think of you, now, every time I turn on the wipers at the same time I signal to turn left.

I'm sure not 'owning' a car has something to do with this...


#35975 07/30/2001 12:44 AM
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I'm likely to understand the person as bi, but having nothing to do with manual dexterity

Right you are, Sparteye! That is, of course, the foremost connotation, nowadays. I just didn't think it's mention fit the thread. However, without some sort of, ahem, "manual dexterity" it would all be pretty irrelevant and boring, wouldn't it?


#35976 07/30/2001 3:10 AM
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>I thought there might be an etymological connection between "left" and "levo", but my dictionary does not confirm this.I think a better dictionary might.

as quoted above f. L. amb(i)- both + læv-us left + -ous.]

so when ya gonna pop for that better dictionary, bill?


#35977 07/30/2001 7:50 AM
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Not to forget the T-shirt with the slogan "Lefties have Rights Too".

Most Computer Mice, are symettrical, and even some of the fancy ones are sold in left hand versions. The buttons can be logically swapped if you so desire. Getting the scroll bars on the left of screens is more difficult, but with the new scrolling wheels on mice, that is not so much a problem.

Some left-handed guitarists have been known to play a right-handed guitar in a left-handed fashion (can't remember the famous example), but it gives a whole new sound from the direction of strike and some chord finguring differences.

But there is definitely an anti-lefty bias in words like sinister, cack-handed, and the like. Another minefield to avoid (if you have a feisty lefty sister-in-law like I have)

Rod



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AnnaS; I too have had that link bookmarked for some time. Fascinating information on how the sides for driving were chosen.

My brother-in-law has a 1928 Crossley, the Gentelman's Sports model in which the only sporting thing about it is that the back of the bench front seat folds down to make a double bed. A magnificent vehicle, but requires great care in driving because the pedals are not in the standard configuration of A-B-C but (I think) A-C-B.

And on the left-right etymology, it's quite simple (with apologies to lefties); the right hand is the one you write with and the left is the one left over.

Rod


#35979 08/01/2001 4:49 AM
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Subject: Re: lefthanded potato peelers

yeahbut. Where d'you find the left-handed potatoes?


ROFL! mav, you slay me....
_________________________

and in regard to the mouse issue, i've always found it quite convenient to use my right hand; mousing certainly doesn't require any tremendous amount of agility, so this 'inconvenience' actually frees up my *good hand for writing and other tasks.




#35980 08/01/2001 11:05 AM
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Glad to see you back, caradea, and to hear you have both hands full


#35981 08/12/2001 2:28 PM
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How did "handedness" evolve? What natural-selection advantage is there to having one hand more agile that the other -- and why is it typically the right hand?



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