#33273
06/28/2001 1:37 AM
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? I always thought 1800s meant the first decade of the 19th century rather than the whole century, so that we went 1800s, 1810s, 1820s, 1830s etc.
I would take the meaning of "the 1800's" according to context. If someone made a sweeping statement such as,
"the 1800's saw many societal changes, the primary one being the industrial revolution", I would take it that they meant the entire century. Perhaps this is a cultural difference? I have noticed, now that I think about it, that some British folk seem to put 19C to refer to the whole century. I don't think that's common in the U.S.
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#33274
06/28/2001 12:39 PM
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I always thought 1800s meant the first decade of the 19th century rather than the whole century, so that we went 1800s, 1810s, 1820s, 1830s etc.
I had an architectural history professor who drilled it into our heads that "the 1800's" (yes, with apostrophe) were a decade and not a century. I've given up on converting anyone else to this way of thinking, but it seems "correct" to me. I'm certainly not as adamant about it as she was (and I think she had a British education, Jackie), and I am happy to glean someone's meaning from context. The problem I have is with people who think I'm being too intellectual when I say "nineteenth century" instead. Grr.
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#33275
06/28/2001 12:56 PM
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I gotta go with Jackie on this. English is a context sensitive language. You can rant all you want about man referring only to males until you run into a man eating shark. Besides you gonna trust someone who thinks the plural of 1800 should have an apostrophe in it?
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#33276
06/28/2001 4:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
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until you run into a man eating shark
But what if it's a shark that really doesn't like the taste of women?
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#33277
06/28/2001 4:36 PM
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Yes, I agree with your point about context sensitivity, Faldage and Jackie. OTOH, "19th century" is completely unequivocal for the whole caboodle. Strange thing is, that though I happily identify 1820s or 1980s as decades, that doesn't seem an obvious pattern below the twenties: 1910s doesn't automatically make me include 1917! No particular logic seems to be at work - anyone else find thsi pattern? edit:Afterthought - maybe it's simply because there is less lexical uniformity below ~20. We sometimes say nineteen-oh-eight, sometimes ~and-one (a space oddity), and the teens are notoriously irregular 
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#33278
06/28/2001 4:38 PM
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a shark that really doesn't like the taste of women
I might not care for myself but I wouldn't be ready to trust my AnnaS with hazy guesses about a shark's personal taste.
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#33279
06/28/2001 4:46 PM
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maybe it's simply because there is less lexical uniformity below ~20.
I agree. I'm anxious about how we'll decide to verbalize these new years we are in (YART alert). I know sign language users are wondering the same thing. Other languages probably face similar (though lexically very different) changes.
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#33280
06/28/2001 6:47 PM
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"a man eating shark."
I've eaten shark, but I did not enjoy it. A Japanese delicacy called "Kamaboko" (my guess at spelling.)
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#33281
06/28/2001 7:07 PM
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Some days you eat the shark, some days the shark eats you.
The good news is the second kind of day will only happen once.
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#33282
06/28/2001 8:24 PM
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Posts: 771
old hand
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Shark is tricky to prepare... something about the levels of uric acid in the meat. I have a vague recollection of soaking shark steaks in milk prior to cooking, but that could have been a surreal dream.
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#33283
06/28/2001 8:52 PM
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I was about to say something about shark not being too difficult to deal with, and being quite yummy with a citrus/vodka sauce a chef friend of mine introduced me to, but I will not turn this word thread into a food thread. I won't do it!
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#33284
06/28/2001 8:55 PM
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I will not turn this word thread into a food thread. I won't do it!
You don't have to, tree frog.
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#33285
06/28/2001 9:01 PM
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I guess I meant a thread about food for humans, rather than large marine predators, but looking back I see that Bill had already taken us down that path.
And that's tiny little green spotted tree frog, to you, Señor Faldaje.
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#33286
06/28/2001 9:55 PM
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Dear Fiberbabe: Sharks developed at a time or place where the water was not saline. When the water began to become salty, they began to retain so much urea in their body fluids that they were relatively isotonic with sea water. If you are interested here is a URL about it http://www.science.mcmaster.ca/Biology/4S03/dm.htmlYou have to scroll down to D, where it talks about elasmobranchs (which includes sharks)
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#33287
06/29/2001 1:31 AM
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~and-one (a space oddity)Oh, GOOD one, Aunt mav! 
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#33288
07/06/2001 4:13 AM
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I hope that reviving old threads is not considered bad form here, but your post expressed my sentiments. The strident insistence that "architecting" is valid seems to come only from some in the 'IT' sector, and they seem in no hurry to explain why the "other" architects have no need of a unique verb to describe what they do. If Christopher Wren, Frank Lloyd Wright and Mies van der Rohe were happy to "design" buildings, why should the Johnny.com latelys in the software business feel such a pressing need to take a perfectly decent noun and bastardise it into an ugly verb? Surely if they really "must" have a verb all to themselves, they could invent one, rather than blag one? Perhaps they feel that stealing a grown-up word will solidify their rather amorphous job description.
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#33289
07/06/2001 11:40 AM
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Vernon>
The strident insistence that "architecting" is valid seems to come only from some in the 'IT' sector, and they seem in no hurry to explain why the "other" architects have no need of a unique verb to describe what they do.
Well said, Vernon!
It seems to me what the so-called "IT sector" are in a hurry for is to get to the "next best thing" and they are not taking the time to build their own vocabulary for their
"inventions" and their methodology.
chronist
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#33290
07/06/2001 12:00 PM
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It seems to me what the so-called "IT sector" are in a hurry for is to get to the "next best thing" and they are not taking the time to build their own vocabulary for their
"inventions" and their methodology.
Ah, but then you're making some incorrect assumptions about IT sector cohesion. Most terms are made up on the spot; those which sound appropriate are adopted on a kind of "catch-as-can" basis. Not everyone agrees with the outcomes (see my post above).
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#33291
07/06/2001 12:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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It was so much easier in the old days [nostalic rant] You started off as a computer programmer. progressed to being a systems analist, and perhaps became a data processing manager (or director) later on. Nobody talked of architecture - even though the old steam-driven computers were massive structures (and I am only refering to second generation m/cs here - the first generation computers were complete buildings in themselves!) Even third generation machines had rooms to themselves and teams of acolytes serving them. Perhaps it is because the machinery has become insignificant in stature that it needs to have grandiosity in its monenclature [/nostalgic rant]
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#33292
07/06/2001 1:36 PM
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Brick and mortar architects design buildings; in IT design is what software programmers do at a program level. In the brick and mortar milieu (Parm my French, E) we have city planners who plan. This verb is not seen as appropriate to the world of IT and isn't even all that much like what systems programmers do anyway. They could have invented some whole nother verb and what would y'all have done in the pule and micturate department about that? Would it help if it were pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable in the manner of other noun/verb pairs? We could submit this proposal to the Acadamye of the Puriteye Propere of the Langage Inglisc if you'd like.
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#33293
07/06/2001 3:53 PM
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You're not fooling me ... ya'll just want new words invented so they can be discussed! HA!
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#33294
07/06/2001 8:57 PM
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I am sorry, Faldage, but your reply missed the point of my question. If "real" architects don't need a one word verbal phrase to describe their function why do IT "architects"? One could accurately decribe their job by saying "they design system architecture", rather than "they architect systems" Not one of the "architect" apologists has yet explained why those who design system architecture need a verb of their own. I do not dispute the existence of the word, I simply have not heard a justfication for its existence. Must there be a single word for everything?
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#33295
07/07/2001 2:07 AM
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Quite right, Vernon. progressed to being a systems analist...It's a mucky job, butt someone's gotta do it
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#33296
07/07/2001 3:28 PM
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I am sorry, but your reply missed the point of my question
I seem to be doing a lot of that lately ... taking things lightly ... Dr. Bill is there a pill for this condition?
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#33297
07/07/2001 3:59 PM
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Dear wow: if there were a pill for this condition, I would be selfish enough to keep them all for myself.
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#33298
07/07/2001 11:17 PM
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One could accurately decribe their job by saying "they design system architecture", Bravo, Vernon! Been reading this thread with only a vague feeling that I didn't particularly like "architect" as a verb but no strong feeling one way or the other - until your post crystalized the issue. Thanks!  I love having my muddy thinking clarified.
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#33299
07/08/2001 4:16 PM
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... I simply have not heard a justfication for its existence...
I, too, am waiting for Godot, but no matter how loud I call, it doesn't seem to speed up its arrival.
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#33301
07/08/2001 10:27 PM
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Vernon states: I am sorry, but your reply missed the point of my question.
Who are you addressing there, Vernon? Hard for me to keep up with the architecture unless you reference...
[passing around happy pills to one and all]
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#33302
07/09/2001 12:15 AM
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In reply to:
Vernon states: I am sorry, but your reply missed the point of my question.
Who are you addressing there, Vernon? Hard for me to keep up with the architecture unless you reference...
Thanks to help from wow, and from Max's site (thanks wwh, for your post suggesting it), I think I may have sorted out my poor quoting habits. I also discovered that one can edit posts after they have been made, and have modified the offending post.
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#33303
07/09/2001 12:28 AM
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have modified the offending post... with the perfect courtesy of keeping the modification highlighted for the sake of clarity - thanks. HINT, WO'N, BIG HINT!!)
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#33304
07/09/2001 2:19 PM
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why those who design system architecture need a verb of their own.
So carpenters lay 2X4s.
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