#33233
06/22/2001 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
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Many of us have reason to utter BOHICA! A word developed in IT land but applicable everywhere, especially by those who must do all the work when the Big Wig who takes all the credit comes up with another brilliant project. It is an acronym for Bend Over, Here It Comes Again. You can learn other such terms at http://www.buzzwhack.com
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#33234
06/22/2001 1:40 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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From their Wack of the Week, in a complete string of gibberish: “…Architected..”AAAAAARGHitected 
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#33235
06/22/2001 2:08 PM
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“…Architected..”
Without going into a long complicated defen(s,c)e, I believe it to be completely justifiable.
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#33236
06/22/2001 2:20 PM
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#33237
06/22/2001 2:31 PM
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…architected… …not justified
It's a software term and relates to the way that software systems are made to relate to each other. It's jargon. If you can't stand the jargon stay out of the software lab.
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#33238
06/22/2001 2:41 PM
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addict
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…architected…
It's jargon.
But like the good (and funny) people at BuzzWhack, I wonder what is wrong with "designed."
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#33239
06/22/2001 2:49 PM
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stay out of the software labIndeed, Faldage, I ain't got no grumbles with the incomprehensible ravings of another speech community! But this was a bloody PRESS RELEASE, for god's sake, designed to actually tell Jo Public something! So what is wrong with 'designed'? - answer, it was written by a pretentious cretin with a pitiful command of the English language! [/rant] 
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#33240
06/22/2001 3:11 PM
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Architects command higher honorariums than mere designers, so in a press release,architected may suggest a basis for a high price.
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#33241
06/22/2001 3:26 PM
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in the best of all possible software worlds, architecture comes before design. often architecture is skipped, and what you end up with is the standard OS (cf. DOS® and UNIX™)
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#33242
06/22/2001 3:34 PM
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As I understand, from talking about this issue with my boss (who is a software engineer with a degree in philosophy), is that design is something else entirely. It's like asking why you don't refer to what a bricklayer does as carpentry. And it isn't architects that architect, it's software engineers. There are different types of software engineers. Some code, some debug, some design and some architect.
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#33243
06/22/2001 3:59 PM
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Some code, some debug, some design and some architect.
I guess I can accept that as a valid piece of jargon (no negative connotation intended), but I just wish they had used a word other than 'architecture' for the concept, as it makes searching online for information about 'built architecture' (there's a retronym for ya) a pain in the ashlar!
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#33244
06/22/2001 4:37 PM
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Flatlander just wishes they had used a word other than 'architecture' for the concept
Aw*, then you'd just be micturating and puling about them inventing some neoplastic® word.
*Ænigma wants awad here!
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#33245
06/22/2001 5:29 PM
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And we still have the perfect right, whenever a particular speech community wants to drag its nasty little secrets out into the light of day, to protest that a particular term of art is unacceptable in the ordinary public discourse. What they say to each other is their own business.
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#33246
06/22/2001 5:48 PM
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Unfortunately, in that community, the term architect is the correct term. For a member of that community to use another term would be wrong. The alternative is for the user of the term architect to go into a long involved explanation of the meaning of architect. I don't know what the full context of this "unacceptable" term was. If it was in a technical article designed for the computer professional I can see no excuse for considering the term unacceptable. If it was in some publication aimed at a more general audience then perhaps the reporter quoting the computer professional should have included a sidebar explaining the term and perhaps other terms that may have been equally unfamiliar to the readers. If this was something you overheard in the local Pig & Whistle then I say caveat auditor.
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#33247
06/22/2001 8:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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I work in the ISB--which some people think stands for Information Services Branch--
but we who work here, recognize its stands for It Should Be...
It Should Be (working, active, on-line.. fill in with the work do choice..)
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#33248
06/22/2001 9:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
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Architects command higher honorariums than mere designers
As a member of both worlds (a web designer and future real architect) I'd say that architects design buildings, therefore they are designers and things they design have been designed.
I don't care much for the new tech sense of architecture. If that sense gets too popular somewhere down the line someone will ask: "Who's Frank Lloyd Wright" "He was an architect" "Oh, I see, he made computer systems."
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#33249
06/25/2001 12:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 87
journeyman
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journeyman
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Ooooh, deary me, you all have gotten hot and botherated about this little item!
I have heard systems people talk about the architecture of a system (computer or database) and I'm sure they meant just that, architecture (all the bits and bytes as they relate to each other and the querries posed to the system), and not design. To us laymen it may seem a silly nuance, and when I talk about the architecture of a building (and not terribly knowledgably, I admit), I'm talking about something more than its design.
And yes, using architect as a verb is a bit much, just now.
(more dessert needed)
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#33250
06/25/2001 8:19 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
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architect is used in other contexts than building and computing. Military campaigns, social and political systems, they have their "architects" too. Usually refering to the person putting the grand plan together rather than the more detailed design.
Rod
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#33251
06/25/2001 10:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
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Architected...
What seems strange to me is that our traditional architects, have for years been planning, devising, designing, mapping out, laying out, etc. And now we have 'IT-architects', they go about architecting here and there.
If it's argot they crave, can't they come up with something new, instead of this slack verbification?
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#33252
06/25/2001 12:44 PM
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come up with something newI guess that's half of what bugs me about this - they are trying to abbrogate a term already in widespread use, just to confer a glib veneer of respectability on their work. In other walks of life taking what is already owned by others is termed theft  Now if they had the courage of their convictions, they would indeed have come up with a new word to properly refelct their dazzling vituosity..! It might even have been a tad less ugly than the sound of this verb form.
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#33253
06/25/2001 1:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<Can't they come up with something new, instead of this slack verbification? >>
"Architecht?"
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#33254
06/25/2001 2:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
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Military campaigns, ... have their "architects" too. Usually refering to the person putting the grand plan together rather than the more detailed design.
Aren't they Strategists (grand plan) and Tacticians (detailed design)! OR ... Am I hoplessly out of date?
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#33255
06/25/2001 3:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
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Military campaigns, ... have their "architects" too
Aren't they Strategists (grand plan) and Tacticians (detailed design)!Yes they are that. I was just showing that the term architect had been widely used/abused before the IT industry. And there are two arguments her; firstly, whether architect is acceptable as a noun in the IT industry; and secondly, whether verbing it is acceptable. I am happy with the first, but then I am in the IT industry and have had architect in my title or job description often enough. It seems a reasonable parallel (as far as I can find out from my real architect friends). I find the verbification ugly, but that is a general battle to be fought. Who is going to architect our grand campaign? Rod
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#33256
06/25/2001 3:22 PM
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rodward finds the verbification ugly
How about architectificatatenize?
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#33257
06/25/2001 6:11 PM
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Yeah, that fits the elegant perfession that gave us Windoze
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#33258
06/26/2001 5:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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I've been both a database architect and a database designer. The one pertains to tbe overall structure of the database system, not only in relation to the information it is going to store but also in terms of its relationships with the user, the computer system it runs on and other database systems with which it has to interact. The other, design, is determining what data gets stored where and the relationships between the data items which are being stored. However, I loathe and detest the use of the verbified form "to architect". I can see no new meaning or nuances of existing meaning which can justify using it instead of designed, in exactly the same way that you would discuss the work of the architect of a house. Jargon is useful in its place, but this is one term which belongs in the nether depths (with MacDonalds burgers). 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#33259
06/26/2001 5:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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bushwa. as has been demonstrated, architecture is different from design. why ambiguate things by using the same verb for both? furthermoreover and in the second place, architect has been extant as a verb since early 18C.
1818 Keats Let. 23 July (1931) I. 219 This was architected thus By the great Oceanus. 1890 Harper's Mag. Apr. 809/2 We would not give being the author of one of Mr. Aldrich's beautiful sonnets to be the author of many ‘Wyndham Towers’, however skilfully architected. 1912 Rose Macaulay Views & Vag. viii. 153, I have no sort of interest in the architecting or building trades. 1913 Raleigh Some Authors (1923) 3 He has come out of the prison-house of theological system, nobly and grimly architected. 1923 Public Opinion 29 June 622/3 A+vague notion that a building ought to be architected.
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#33260
06/26/2001 11:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Glad to see you on my side, tsuwm, but.
Um, how to say this...
1818 is early 19th century.
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#33261
06/26/2001 12:22 PM
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um... that was my abbreviation for 1800s... yeah, that's the ticket.
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#33262
06/26/2001 12:25 PM
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18c (c={1}00)
I can live with that.
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#33263
06/27/2001 2:58 AM
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Posts: 3,146
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I don't recall claiming that the word doesn't exist. I simply claim that I avoid using it like the plague. And will continue to do so in spite of its fine pedigree.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#33264
06/27/2001 3:16 AM
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>I avoid using it like the plague.
I also notice that you avoid the point that there is a distinction to be made between design and architecture. so give us a better verb to use than design, already. :-/
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#33265
06/27/2001 5:15 AM
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I also notice that you avoid the point that there is a distinction to be made between design and architecture. so give us a better verb to use than design, already. :-/
carry out/perform/do/design system architecture. Take your pick.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#33266
06/27/2001 5:37 AM
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In reply to:
1800s
Is it just me, or has the meaning of this and similar expressions changed? I always thought 1800s meant the first decade of the 19th century rather than the whole century, so that we went 1800s, 1810s, 1820s, 1830s etc.
Bingley
Bingley
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#33267
06/27/2001 7:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
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tsuwm demands:
so give us a better verb to use than design, already.
besides those mentioned in my previous post, I offer 'to draw up' or 'to draft'. I do not think these are superior to 'to design' or 'to architect', but are at least, commonly used with respect to the architecture of sth. in my experience.
BTW, AHD gives the definition of architecture (with respect to Computer Science) as: 'The overall !design! of a computer system'.
A cold, hard case of six of one, half a dozen of the other here gentlemen?
the final word: Ænigma finds 'architect' no good, and offers 'architectonic' instead.
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#33268
06/27/2001 11:41 AM
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Bingley asks "Is it just me, or has the meaning of this and similar expressions changed? I always thought 1800s meant the first decade of the 19th century…"
It's just you, Bingley.
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#33269
06/27/2001 12:04 PM
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tsuwm dictionarificates architect has been extant as a verb since early 18CWell sure, but I gather there are rafts of words cited in dictionaries which no longer have the same, or sometines perhaps any significant, meaning. Indeed, I understand some people keep whole databases designed around this architecture
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#33270
06/27/2001 1:24 PM
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>I understand some people keep whole databases designed around this architecture architect doesn't qualify. it's overused.
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#33271
06/27/2001 1:31 PM
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it's overused
... so becoming worthless?
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#33272
06/27/2001 3:38 PM
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>carry out/perform/do/design system architecture. Take your pick.
not to be argumentative (well, that too ;), but one of the things we do all of the time is try to find a single word which will substitute for two or more. thus, 'architect' [or something more worthy] = 'carry out/perform/do/design system architecture'. using 'design', by itself, (as in "I design systems") is ambiguous."I architect systems" (to someone such as yourself) would be clear, although noisome. okay?
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