#32950
06/20/2001 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
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As I mentioned earlier in the High Priestess thread, I have been corresponding with Anu a bit lately, with the initial help of Jackie, of course. The purpose of our talking is my proposal to give wordsmith.org a fresh, new look. It has remained the same since it's inception in 1994 and Anu agreed that some aesthetic improvements are in order. I volunteered to create a new design for our beloved site. I had an interesting and pleasing conversation with Anu on the phone last evening (he's a very nice person) and we discussed what we would like to see with a new design and re-organization and what factors needed to be considered, such as older, text-only browsers and voice software for blind users. Anu seems to be pleased with what I have designed so far, but we would like your input because we know that this board is such a great source of ideas. My design is located at http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith. I haven't been able to check it in all browsers and possible computer set-ups. I'd like your feedback on the design and I'll most likely be making a couple other possible designs for you to consider. Thanks P.S. Note that the only links on the design that go to other pages are the "text-only" and "more/AWAD" links.
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#32951
06/20/2001 11:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
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#32952
06/20/2001 11:34 PM
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everything looks good as far as IE, Netscape and even aol (ha!) are concerned; and switching to text version works fine. are you planning to do anything with the available space on the side -- i.e., with frames or anything like that?
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#32953
06/21/2001 12:59 AM
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Wow, it looks cool! I LOVE it that Anu's picture is there!
Two--well, one--suggestion, and a personal preference.
Rather than just the basic definition of the W.A.D., I think it would be better to have everything that you see when you click on More visible immediately. I have a feeling that many people will skip this step, and thus also a great deal of enrichment. Words are so much more than their definitions; etymologies can be very interesting; and,
I love the quotes and X-bonuses.
My personal preference is about the font of the headings.
I like my letters better if they are solid, not hollow with odd colors here and there, and I especially like them to be straight, and to sit upon a level line. It makes me vaguely uneasy if they look "wobbly". (I know--that's weird, but I can't help it.)
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#32954
06/21/2001 10:19 AM
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Jazzo, I can only echo the congratulations of the others. It looks clean and sharp. You are brave to share it with us.
Any design like this is going to be a compromise between having all the information and having too much clutter. I agree with Jackie that you should at least try having the etymology on the front page.
The open font and alignment didn't worry me that much, it fits in with the general look and feel, but you may have to try other options if too many people agree with Jackie.
Be very careful about cluttering up the current "spare" space with navigator frames as Tswum may have been suggesting, or was it just a question? You may lose the clean feel.
But great stuff.
Rod
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#32955
06/21/2001 11:21 AM
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Jazz,
I think the new design is great, and rodward was right when he said that you were brave to share it with us. I doubt anyone would offer anything other than constructive criticism, but changing something we have all grown so attached to is likely to meet with some resistance.
As far as my own comments, I'd have to agree with Jackie that the more information about the WAD on the "front page" the better, and I am also not a fan of outline fonts (but to each his own, esthetically-speaking). Also, maybe you should add to the list of links in the right-hand box a link to the FAQs and, based on the amount of coverage Anu is getting lately, a link to Information for the Press.
I love the clean, clear style -- good work, and congratulations! Finally, and of particular importance to those of us who spend the majority of our time here at AWADtalk, can we see a redesign for the pink navigation banner that appears at the top of every page?
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#32956
06/21/2001 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Thanks for the comments so far. Tsuwm, I'm guessing that you're using a screen setting that is higher than 800x600. Currently, it looks best in that setting because that's what I use personally. I'm considering using a background image that will have a different color at the 800 pixel mark so higher density browsers can see something other than a field of one solid color.
Jackie, I originally had all of the information on the front page, but that looked a little cluttered and made the middle column much longer than the others. This is actually one less step to get to the full details of a word because currently you have to click AWAD then Today's Word to get to it. This would only require clicking "more" or "AWAD" to get the full thing.
As for the title at the top, I'm fully open to suggestions there. I thought the two colors looked interesting, but I'm totally open to changes.
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#32957
06/21/2001 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
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can we see a redesign for the pink navigation banner that appears at the top of every page?
If Anu will let me I was planning on continuing the style through to AWADtalk. I'm not sure about the tan/orange background, but some of the colors and the main logo would have to change for uniformity.
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#32958
06/21/2001 12:07 PM
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I particularly like having all the available features on the first page. I first learned about AWAD from the Smithsonian magazine article.But it was a couple weeks before I scrolled down far enough to notice the AWADtalk button. A lot of people may never have noticed it. Perhaps the AWADtalk button ought to be made to stand out more.
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#32959
06/21/2001 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Nice, Jazzo. I love the color scheme. I like the Word a Day the way it is-- while having all of the information immediately available would be nice, I think it might look too cluttered. I have to agree with Jackie on one thing; it somehow makes me slightly uneasy to be able to see the box borders through the A Word a Day, AWADtalk, Chat and News headings. Dunno why. 
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#32960
06/21/2001 1:12 PM
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Jazz, I think your design is really really good. Well done you, and thank you for volunteering to give AWAD a facelift! My only comment is a personal preference for more contrast between text colour and background colour. I find it easier to read the text in the lighter-coloured boxes on the front page than the information on the W.A.D that appears when you click "more", which is directly set on the darker tan background. Again, this is only a preference... I think the font on the page title looks pretty good, however I do feel a bit like Jackie and Rapunzel about the section headings where you can see the outline of the box behind them... maybe that's also a bit harder on the eyes? Thanks again for your time and dedication, Jazz! Marianna
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#32961
06/21/2001 1:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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I agree with previous comments about the clean, uncluttered appearance of your design, Jazzo. 10/10 for that. I have personal reservations about the colour choices, which I find a little too dull, perhaps? But they are not offensive, and I would not be put off by them, were it the first time I had come to the site.
Overall, I am in favour of what you've done - and thank you for putting so much thought and effort into a project that will benefit us all.
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#32962
06/21/2001 1:57 PM
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Great work, Jazzo. And the sooner the 'pretty in pink' is retired, the better! I would tend to agree about outline fonts and keeping high contrast. Well done for an excellent initiative, carried out with skill.
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#32963
06/21/2001 2:24 PM
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My initial reaction was to rear up and think :
"Somebody wants to mess with AWAD! No!"
Then I took a look ... and I am converted!
Lovely, JazzO! I like the golden background .. probably because it's my understanding that yellow is equated with the mind in several Eastern cultures... and Western halos are golden too!
As to the fonts : the san serif is very clean and readable but I have to throw in with having them a bit heavier or in a color other than the light blue, perhaps a bit darker blue against the gold color? I know Dr. Bill has difficulty reading so perhaps you could check with him on readability?
All in all a super-dooper effort. Much applause and a bit of jealousy for all the talent displayed.
Do keep us informed, JazzO. Hurrah for you and Anu too.
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#32964
06/21/2001 2:53 PM
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Everything looks fine! I would be especially sensitive to download times, and although this means less for a page such as the home page (or index.html) where you want as much as possible available, the current simplicity, load order, as well as the main body of text being as one full page (as each thread loads in flat view) should be maintained (you might not be able to change this anyway). The less fluff the better, and if this site brings any kind of advertisement/banners you will/can count me out for good.   I like the grey background to read black letters from, and to add any strong red (like your tan) or blue hues will effect the tone of the board... it's the same reason people are "complaining" about the pink that is there... any other color theorists here with a brighter light to shed??? ... and if you change the grey how are we going to get into the gutter?
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#32965
06/21/2001 2:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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Add me to the list of well-wishers. Great job! I use AOL, which has problems as everyone knows, but no problem getting it to load and it appears to be OK in all respects. I like the colors and the fonts. My only wish is that the small fonts where most of the info and links appear might be bigger -- there seems to be room for the same amount of text in their respective boxes if a slightly larger font were used. My problem is that I wear contact lenses with reading glasses (bifocal reading glasses, of all things, for short and medium range reading, and text on the computer screen falls somewhere in between). Also, I have allergies which, in spite of medications, cause allergic conjunctivitis, so that my eyes water and ooze, causing the contacts to fail to seat properly a good bit of the time, which distorts vision, making it very difficult to read small fonts. (Sorry to inflict all that on you -- this should warn you about what to expect when you get old.) I expect a good many older people will have problems with fonts that small.
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#32966
06/21/2001 3:39 PM
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It looks great! Thanks for the initiative to start it, and kudos on the skill and taste required to execute it so well. When I first read that you had offered to remodel AWAD, I was taken aback - it seemed like sacrilege. Now I've seen what you've done, and I thank you for it.
Great work, Jazzo.
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#32967
06/21/2001 7:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Mercy! A new and improved AWAD ... and new titles too?
From the comments, looks like you have struck gold!
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#32968
06/21/2001 7:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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well i didn't go and check the sourse code for colors..
but if you can, you might want to open the page side by side in EI and netscape-- not all browsers handle color the same-- before you comment on colors-- you must recognize the colors you see, might not be the colors i see.. (there can be a pretty dramitic difference just from AOL/EI/Netscape, not to mention MAC versions.. )
(though all colors that use only the hex value of 0,3,6,9, C and F are supposed to behave the same on all browsers)--
The colors can still be effected by how you have set up your monitor-- some apps, like photo shop-- can change how "colors/contrast" look and value-- as can the age of your monitor..(and i am guessing no one here is still just using 16 colors.. or even 256..)
all this is rather technical (but i bet jazzo, and many other here know of what i speak)
, --ps- jazzo, i asked my son, who is a sometimes visitor to the AWAD word list, but never to AWAD talk, and who uses a text only browser-- to look at it.. and see how it looks in linx.
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#32969
06/21/2001 9:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
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you might want to open the page side by side in EI and netscape
I did this and did notice a fairly obvious color difference, at least on my computer. The Netscape background looked almost pink compared to the intended color. I've fixed that by making the background an image rather than just a brower interpreted color. The background image also changes colors at the 800 pixel mark so those with humongous monitors won't just see a huge blank space.
I also centered everything, this again to make it look better with different monitor sizes.
Byb, as for font sizes, unless I were to use complicated scripting that isn't recognized by very many browsers, I'm unable to do much with them. Currently, HTML only allows for about 6 different font sizes and if I were to go one size up the text would be cumbersomely large. I see the text as the same size as that on this board, except for the news, which I intentionally made smaller to fit better.
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#32970
06/21/2001 9:44 PM
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>I've fixed that by making the background an image rather than just a brower interpreted color.
the tradeoff there, of course, is that the page takes a little longer to load.
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#32971
06/21/2001 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
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the tradeoff there, of course, is that the page takes a little longer to load.Only about 3 seconds for 56k though. The dimensions of the image are 1200x1.
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#32972
06/21/2001 11:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Congratulations and thank you, Jazz, for taking the initiative to develop the look of the Board. I've felt from the start that the appearance lagged well behind the liveliness of the content; BUT, since I have neither the technical ability nor the creativity to do anything about it, I didn't feel I had the right to complain! You've done a super job and I can't wait for the inauguration of the full-scale new look (as long as you lose the pink and the current AWAD script font).
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#32973
06/22/2001 1:59 PM
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the tradeoff with images is that the page takes a little longer to load
And the background will be cached in your local machine for the session, and if you are a regular visitor, probably for longer. If you are a frequent web user and have lots of spare disk space, try increasing the cache size in your browzer (US spelling - I'm learning), this can improve download performance. In IE its Tools/Internet Options and then the Settings for Temporary Files in the middle of the General Page. In Netscape, its Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Cache.
Rod
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#32974
06/22/2001 3:15 PM
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First, let me rephrase the statement... "one should be sensitive to download times" (as an T-IT(don't ask) manager, I have no problem there). However, in combination with these download times are internal processing speed times, and I feel for any PC user still running a pentium 2 under 350mhz. Anyone who hasn't bought a new PC in two years may have one. These machines are fine for most basic office/desktop work, there are a lot out there, and will "exponentialy" add to download time. ofTroy - I am familiar with all the technical references you give, but my point has nothing to do with those... my statement about color theory has to do with the psycological effects of red and blue as a background with long term use... something that is apparently, and going to be (although I hope not) ignored. ...and I believe tsuwm's point should be regarded as ultimately important. Although Rodward may have a point for those of you who like to use your cache which is designed to speed up the display process, not the "download process", it'll do nothing for those of us who don't use a cache (for specific network traffic reasons) and will "hurt" the slower internal processers regardless of cache use. There are also alot of people that don't have a lot of disk space to allot to cache space, and a large cache space on a slower computer can actually® be slower than direct to display downloads. I, personally, don't like the current color choices (I prefer a blue undertone (a type of grey intead of a type of tan) but everything else looks wonderful). (EDIT - I would assume 256 colors, no more!)
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#32975
06/22/2001 5:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Musick, I to am T-IT-- more T than IT-- but with enough IT bragging rights.. (well at least i am this week... i have been known to change careers every once in a while)
Right from the first time (in netscape) the backrground looked ochre to me... and i thought the blue was an nice contrast.. (in fact, from an art/color value point of view, blue/orange is a perfect contrast, but the ochre is a very good choice-- especially since color values are handled differently, and created differently on a monitor (RGB as primary colors, not RBY)
I didn't comment on size, since i have my monitor resolution fairly small-- (all the more room for my desk top-- and i hide my task bar-- since it takes up to much space)
a quick glance of the sourse code shows several of the colors values use 7, E, and other values that will not be the same in every browser..
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
a color tutorial
Color in computers is controlled several ways-- in HTML (Hyper Text Markup Language)and other ML's (XML, etc.)
color is expressed with 2 place numbers.. only the numbers are in Hex(adecimal) so each XX can express 256 values, not 99-- (one value is 00--no color, so some say 255 colors..) so 6 digits can display 255 shades of Red, 255 shades of Green, and 255 shades of blue.--and then when you start "mixing colors" (say red and blue for a violet or purple= FF00FF). its easy to see how you can get millions of colors..
of these millions of colors, 255 colors are supposed to look the same everywhere.. these colors only use certain values..
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,12, 13, 14, 15 (in decemial)
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F (in Hex)
the 255 "universal colors only use the number values in bold.
so plain, intense red =FF0000 (Max out the red value (FF) and no green (00), and no blue (00)
and Green = 00FF00, and Blue= 0000FF.. -- this is sometimes referred to as RRGGBB--
and in unix--these RGB values were expressed in octal --though i am told that has changed..
If in any windows program, you go to a color window (say for fort in word-) and go to the advanced button. you see a rainbow like spectrum.. as you select a color... the window will also give you the RGB values.. (you might have even seen them there, and never knew what you were looking at..Now you have an idea!)
what makes everything more complicated is hue and intensity.. and other factors that will effect that color.
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#32976
06/22/2001 5:06 PM
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Thanks for that walkthough, OT - good to know we're in safe hands with a pair of T-ITs to lead us
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#32977
06/22/2001 5:33 PM
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Mav-- half the people at AWAD know enough to run rings around me.. the other half are often fine at using a computer-- but don't have a clue as to how it works.. i am somewhere in the middle.. I am not very good at developement (haven't done a lot) but-- i know enough that the techno geeks can talk to me.. and i can ask intelligent questions.. (and not ask impossible tasks).. and i am very good at explaining what i do know, so that other can understand it.. but any number of people here have contributed a wealth of technical information. we might consider a side line of teaching web/computer basics.. a complete How To list... (how do i get ń, how do i get a  , how do i..) and then some.. (oh no, jazzo, i think i am suggesting that the FAQ be updated too...and i am backing off before i find that i have "vollunteered" to do it.)
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#32978
06/22/2001 5:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 142
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Thanks to Jazzoctopus for the lead and everyone else for helpful suggestions regarding re-design of Wordsmith.Org.
While discussion of colors and fonts and the like is useful, let's think outside the box. What features would be useful to have here? "Share this page with a friend"? AvantGo, WML, Palm versions of the pages? What else?
What other content would be good to have here? Access to a dictionary or a thesaurus?
Is there a site on the Internet that you especially like and find easy to navigate? Feel free to share it here.
We may not be able to put in all the feature and changes suggested here in the end, but let's open the discussion.
And to answer a question, AWADtalk will follow the color scheme of the rest of the site. And yes, it won't be pink.
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#32979
06/22/2001 5:45 PM
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Thanks Anu, not only for the constant attention you must be giving this project, but also for the energy to keep the thinking fresh.
Off the cuff, I agree that Mail this Page and dictionary access would be useful features, and perhaps a more prominent links section to word-orient(at)ed sites like Quinion and so on.
I am sure the more considered responses will be worth listening to.
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#32980
06/22/2001 5:47 PM
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First I must say how great it is to see the bold red handle of wordsmith appear on the board, and how happy I am to respond.
As far as access to a dictionary goes, I imagine most of us here have our own list of favorite reference sites, but perhaps other users would appreciate a reasonably short list of suggested dictionary/thesaurus/etymology/etc. sites. One that leaps to mind is the one at Max's great AWADabilia site, so maybe a link there is all that is needed (or we could see if Max wouldn't mind wordsmith.org stealing the list so it would fit the new design scheme). I'd hate to see the site endorse (officially or just by association) one particular reference site (unless it provides some much-needed operating expenses, I suppose!)
Good luck with the new look!
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#32981
06/22/2001 5:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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In reply to:
Thanks for that walkthough, OT - good to know we're in safe hands with a pair of T-ITs to lead us
Maverick, I have a feeling that you'd follow a good pair of T-ITs anywhere. [giggle emoticon]
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#32982
06/22/2001 5:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Oh gosh, if we're fantasizing here: links to dictionaries and thesauri (?) would be terrific. And how about a spell-checker? An informal chat room? Thank you so much for this site.
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#32983
06/22/2001 6:43 PM
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a while back I had an exchange with some other logophiliac(?) webmasters regarding a 'web ring' for verbivores (and I mentioned this in an aside to jazzo). I got a warm response from kevin johnson (of Spizzerinctum) and mild interest from Mike Quinion. what do you folks think of this idea?
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#32984
06/22/2001 6:58 PM
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a second to tsuwm's suggestion of links to other word sites (but a pop up window-- warning them they are leaving AWAD-- (good sense too, since new google type browsers look for how well linked up you are..)
and what i would like is
1) a copy of sent mail not just recieved
2) a utility for forwarding my mail (both sent and recieved) to my (home/business) email address..
a third thing would be some sort of Add functions (limited--) to Aenegma.. so that YART would be added.. and maybe even that other word...
some more mark up would be nice..
so that we could make horizontal bars (rules/lines) instead of doing this..
* * * * * * *...or ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ or what ever
graphics, and up loading files, well that get scary.. there are lots of viruses.. but maybe some more emoticons? and color..
I had fun with Mavericks "blank subject" line.. and enjoy color.. (even though its a pain to do all the mark up) how about some secret options -- for use to find, if we can.. easter eggs if you will...
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#32985
06/22/2001 10:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
- Sent mail copies? I second the motion. - Expanded emoticon list? Suggestions anyone?... Confused? Melancholy? Drunk?  - Spell Checker? I like the "random" spell checker we have (can we make it more so?). It has forced me to look up those words I am not confident spelling, and in doing so is has become a tool which heals the wound, not band-aid over the cut. A flavor of the east in a overly western meal.
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#32986
06/22/2001 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
Ok, y'all, I have a second design possibility for your perusal now. It's at http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/layout2.jpg. It's just a giant image, because I haven't written it out in code yet, so it may take a bit to load and none of the links work. (You can't click on it.) It has all the same information, just organized in a different manner. This version would only require six images to load as opposed to ten.
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#32987
06/23/2001 12:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
> I like the "random" spell checker we have (can we make it more so?). It has forced me to look up those words I am not confident spelling, and in doing so is has become a tool which heals the wound, not band-aid over the cut. A flavor of the east in a overly western meal.
I agree. Don't get rid of Aenigma, please! Which site can boast of an almost-human spell checker?
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Jazz.. I like the new design very much .. it does not draw attention to itself.
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#32988
06/23/2001 11:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Jazz, I want to add my thanks for your wonderful initiative. I think I prefer your second version, though I'll go with the consensus.
Two requests:
a. Please keep it as simple and fast-loading as possible, for us modem-challenged ones.
2. Please get rid of the signature line option when you get around to architecting® the 'Edit Profile' section.
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#32989
06/23/2001 11:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
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