#26597
04/23/2001 12:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
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addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
Re Elephant and Castle. Capital Kiwi [why do I always think of CK as "Captain Kiwi" in a superman outfit with a bird across his chest? ] says - I heard that the locksmiths had an elephant and a castle on their coat of arms, that they were prevalent in this area of London and that was how the name came about.I always believed what my father told me [including Santa Claus etc.] but Googling would support CK. http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-ele1.htm states that my long held theory is probably a myth (along with Goat and Compasses = "God Encompasses") on the grounds Eleanor of Castile, the wife of Edward I wasn't an infanta (or at least wasn't known as that). The castle is really a howdah (a hunting seat) on the back of the elephant. The Elephant and Castle pub was prior to 1760 a smithy that had the same name and sign. This was used by the Cutlers' Company, a guild dating from the 13th century for workers who made knives, scissors, surgical instruments and so on. (linking across to the silver service thread!!!!) The guild used the elephant and howdah symbom. A suggestion is that the connection is the ivory used for knife handles. Thanks for the debunking of my myth CK. Next someone will be telling me that the Easter Bunny is only Mickey Mouse dressed up!  Rod
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#26598
04/23/2001 1:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
The castle is really a howdah (a hunting seat) on the back of the elephant.
is the term howdah limited to a hunting seat? I thought a howdah was the name of the elephant "sadle". and it applied to both the kind with hood (roofs?) and open ones.
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#26599
04/23/2001 1:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
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addict
Joined: Feb 2001
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is the term howdah limited to a hunting seat? I thought a howdah was the name of the elephant "sadle". and it applied to both the kind with hood (roofs?) and open ones.
Apologies; certainly not limited to hunting seat. My dictionary (POD) gives it as "(Usually canopied) seat for riding on elephant or camel. From Urdu hawda".
Rod
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#26600
04/23/2001 4:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
In reply to:
Capital Kiwi [why do I always think of CK as "Captain Kiwi" in a superman outfit with a bird across his chest?
HaHa! OK, everyone who has had to make an effort to remember that it is Capital Kiwi and not Captain Kiwi, raise your hands. .... That's what I thought.
Although, Rodward, you have it slightly wrong: it is not a Superman outfit he is wearing, it is a nautical jacket with gold braid.
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#26601
04/23/2001 4:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
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everyone who has had to make an effort to remember that it is Capital Kiwi and not Captain Kiwi, raise your hands
[Raising my hand]
That's why I try to think of him as Upper Case Gooseberry whenever I can. Keeps my conception of him from getting too high an opinion of itself.
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#26602
04/23/2001 5:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Elephant and castle
The elephant and castle (actually, howdah, as noted in otehr replies) is, according to 2 of my handbooks, not an infrequent charge in heraldry. In fact, an elephant will generally be depicted with the "castle" by default, unless it is made clear that it does not have it.
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#26603
04/23/2001 5:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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That's why I try to think of him as Upper Case Gooseberry whenever I can. Keeps my conception of him from getting too high an opinion of itself.That's Upper Case Chinese Gooseberry to you, my good man! And, taking Sparteye's view of my sartorial habits, an interesting contrast: Last Friday was Poppy Day here in Zild (and probably in Oz). On that day, the Returned Services Association (Vets to you poor, benighted Yanks) sell plastic poppies on the streets to raise money for the association. The poppy commemorates the poppies which grew in spring in France during WWI. As the average age of the servicemen from WWII has risen (and they themselves have declined, e.g. into wheelchairs), more and more often members of the armed forces turn out on to the streets to do the actual selling. I bought mine from a rear-admiral (well, THE rear-admiral, Somerville, we only have one of them). He's also currently the head of NZ's armed forces, such as they are. He was standing outside a coffee shop by himself, although he was doing a brisk trade (most people buy poppies). I had to laugh to myself, though. Can you imagine the Chairman of the JCS standing on the streets of Washington without a full military escort and kevlar armour, armed only with a bunch of plastic poppies and a money tin? 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26604
04/23/2001 6:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
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Can you imagine the Chairman of the JCS standing on the streets of Washington without a full military escort and kevlar armour, armed only with a bunch of plastic poppies and a money tin?
Perhaps since he is still on actve duty he has yet to join the VFW.
We have the poppy sale around Memorial Day. (Late weekend in May) They are paper poppies with two leafs and a wire stem.Not many realize the connection to Flanders Field but even youngest know the poppies are to help veterans of all wars. Around here they're sold by members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW).
There is a poem Wait! I found it: (Bless Google)
"In Flanders Field"
Written in by John McCrae (1915)
After witnessing the carnage of WWI John McCrae wrote "In Flanders Field." McCrae, a Canadian, was a medical officer in the Boer War and World War I.
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In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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Flanders Field is in France and part of southwest Belgium. There, many battles took place in first World War.
wow
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#26605
04/23/2001 11:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,146 |
Perhaps since he is still on actve duty he has yet to join the VFW.
Well, Admiral Somerville is pretty active. Usually in defending the armed forces against Helengrad's military budget cuts. He's da man.
And as for poems which reinforce the pointlessness of war, I find this one by Siegried Sassoon pretty hard to beat and apologies for any slight memory-induced errors:
"Good morning, good morning!" the General cried
As we passed him last week our the way to the line.
Now the chaps that he smiled at are most of 'em dead,
And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
"He's a cheery old card," grunted Harry to Jack
As they tramped up to Arras with rifle and pack.
But he did for 'em both with his line of attack.
Written by Sassoon in 1917 shortly before the General's line of attack did get 'im.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26606
04/24/2001 10:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
There's always a lot of ceremony surrounding poppies and war on November 11, which is Remembrance Day in Canada. And all kids are at least familiar with "In Flanders Fields"; most have probably had to recite it with their class or something at some time in their lives. Now the poem's been printed on our new $10 bill. (By the way, I think this is getting YART-y.)
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#26607
04/24/2001 12:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
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Re: Capital Kiwi [why do I always think of CK as "Captain Kiwi" in a superman outfit with a bird across his chest?
not a Superman outfit he is wearing, it is a nautical jacket with gold braid.
I try to think of him as Upper Case Gooseberry whenever I can.
and Yet, when the Perle Mesta's of the board, myself included, invited CK and his partner, to be our guests when they land states side-- we where accused of being hoons...
Maybe the little kiwi likes being thought of as a superhero, and doesn't want us to see his dull plumage!
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#26608
04/24/2001 2:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Maybe the little kiwi likes being thought of as a superhero, and doesn't want us to see his dull plumage!Capital Kiwi is most definitely a hero to me, no matter his plumage. And I'm glad he doesn't wear his underwear on the outside. 
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#26609
04/24/2001 5:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
And I'm glad he doesn't wear his underwear on the
outside.Whoa! Discovered at last! Of course I wear my boxers on the outside. Might as well show them off, given what they cost. Anyway, Rod, our pommy mate from IBM, has contributed a picture of me in full flight which I've uploaded to Max's i-Drive. Take a look. Personally, I think it's a great likeness! http://www.idrive.com/. For those of you with short memories or who can't work the search function, the user name is "maxquordlepleen" and the case-sensitive password is "Crescent". And once again, thanks Max.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26610
04/25/2001 12:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Of course I wear my boxers on the outside
And right cute they are, too...
But--I couldn't download the picture. I get either a screen telling me there's a problem, or after an eternity,
a window containing a small frame with the dreaded red x in it.
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