#26060
04/06/2001 4:23 PM
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Usage/Ukage/Ausage is an attempt to share information on differences between all the different versions of English (Sorry CK, I couldn't quite see how to fit Zild or others into the pattern). This board throws up examples all the time of words in local use, but I was wondering about words and phrases which have opposite meanings, or meanings so different as to cause embarrassment (and therefore amusing to the onlooker  ). I know of a few, but would like to hear of more. My understanding of the below may be incorrect so please correct me if I am wrong. I am also interested to know which side of the divide any bystanders may fall. moot point: US: A point not worth discussing UK: An important and undecided point table a motion: US: to put an agenda item aside for (much) later discussion (in UK this would be to "shelve a motion". UK: to bring the agenda item before the committee. Durex: UK: As Hover=Vacuum cleaner so Durex=condom Aus: Durex = Sellotape (Uk) = Scotchtape (US) (visions of Australians asking for a reel of Durex in UK, or pomms in Sydney having to "roll their own" ) Rubber: UK: An eraser US: Condom My wife's elderly aunt claims she was in a stationers in US and called out across the shop to her daughter already at the till "Wait, I've just found the pencils I was looking for, with the rubbers on the end in the shape of Mickey Mouse and Pluto" Others? Corrections? Rod
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#26061
04/06/2001 5:11 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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RE: with the rubbers on the end in the shape of Mickey Mouse and Pluto"
I heard in the past, that an alternate word for condoms in the UK was a "french cap"-- and the french called condoms --(no attempt here to put it into french) "english letters"
So what do the french call "french tickers" --( Not mickymouse rubbers I suspect)
On a more serious note--
"Its Greek to me" (for something total incomprehendable) becomes "Its Hewbrew to me" in (french i think) but in what is incomprehendable changes for language to language .... its Chinese... ( can we do a series?)
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#26062
04/06/2001 6:04 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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To fix a flat:
US To repair a flat t(i,y)re
UK ? To rent an apartment ?
To knock someone up:
US To get someone pregnant
UK ? To visit someone ? To come by and pick someone up ?
Not sure of the UKages but I'm sure we can get a clarification.
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#26063
04/06/2001 6:16 PM
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veteran
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fix a flat
Faldage, I don't believe you would speak in the UK of "fixing" a flat of any kind. I believe it's only we USers who use "fix" to mean "repair". Verification/correction anyone?
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#26064
04/06/2001 6:23 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Sorry CK, I couldn't quite see how to fit Zild or others into the pattern).
Zildages.
The interesting thing (from my perspective, anyway) is that ALL of the meanings attributed to the words above hold good here.
In NZ, rubber = eraser = condom, etc., depending on context.
Tabling a motion or an agenda item, however, only means putting it before the meeting. This is probably because you wouldn't be able to sort out what it meant from the context.
I have NEVER heard sellotape called Durex in Australia. I do stand to be corrected by our Ozzish neighbours, however.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26065
04/06/2001 6:42 PM
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I believe it's only we USers who use "fix" to mean "repair". Zild uses "fix" for "repair" all the time. We would rent a flat, or an apartment, and if it needed maintenance work, we would fix it. Using "flat" for a rented residence gives the wonderfully useful verbal construction "flatting", which would be much more awkward if translated to "apartmenting". Unlike CK I have heard people outside of Lewisveal talk of fixing breakfast, which I must do now. 
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#26066
04/06/2001 7:17 PM
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fix... repair
Yes, I would be with you again Max - I would find it pretty natural to talk about "fixing a leak" or "fixing a tool" meaning mending it. But maybe this is a USnism that's crept into my lex - what about other Brits?
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#26067
04/06/2001 9:21 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rubber:
UK: An eraser
US: Condom...ahem... far, oh so very far, be it for me to be prudish, but... "rubbers" are equvalent to "galoshes" (I might be the only one (my age (whatever that is)) left on this side of the pond to wear them ) I want my word back!!! 
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#26068
04/07/2001 12:36 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear musick: to me rubbers are only high enough to protect shoes, and galoshes go over shoes and come up ten inches or better and so have to be loose enough that four or more buckles are needed to close them. Back in the twenties girls who wore them unbuckled were called "flappers". Hardly anybody wears either these days. When weather was really wet, and slush or mud was a problem, I much preferred L.L. Bean's Maine hunting boots, with rubber bottoms and leather tops.
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#26069
04/07/2001 1:26 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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"Wait, I've just found the pencils I was looking for, with the rubbers on the end in the shape of Mickey Mouse and Pluto"
to take the mickey out of him
UK: To put someone down (?)
US:
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#26070
04/07/2001 12:33 PM
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US : "wash up" meaning personal ablutions.
UK : wash the dishes after a meal.
This led to some amusing confusion when, on a trip to UK, I asked my hostes if there was somewhere I could wash up after my long drive.
wow
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#26071
04/08/2001 8:58 AM
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Unlike CK I have heard people outside of Lewisveal talk of fixing breakfast, which I must do now.Sorry to disappoint you, Max, but I had heard of people fixing meals a long, long time ago. Stirring Jackie over it, however, has been irresistable. Hopefully within a couple of months that maligned lady can demonstrate to me, personally, what she does to "fix" perfectly undamaged food ... and hopefully, the virtue or otherwise of "He needed killin' " as a legal defence for murder will remain untested in the Kaintuck courts for a while longer afterwards!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26072
04/08/2001 11:42 AM
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Stirring Jackie over it, however, has been irresistable
Poke the borax at me, willya? Right, eggs and
brains at 7 a.m. for you, Bub.
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#26073
04/08/2001 12:26 PM
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I heard in the past, that an alternate word for condoms in the UK was a "french cap"-- and the french called condoms --(no attempt here to put it into french) "english letters"
I've never heard 'French cap'. I know 'Dutch' cap for a diaphragm and 'French letters' for condoms.
French letters / letters anglaises is part of a special subset of your other point about 'all Greek / all Chinese / all Hebrew to me'. What the British call 'taking French leave', the French call 'filer à l'anglais' and so on.
I used to know another couple of these English-French pairings - can anyone help out? Is belMarduk still with us?
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#26074
04/08/2001 9:14 PM
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journeyman
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journeyman
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Re: Preparation of meals --prepare/fix/make/other Let's see if we can obtain an Ayleur consensus (non-unanimous)and not one as to what is exclusively "right and proper" but one which is merely a recognized or an understood usage by various groupings, e.g.:
I cannot , in this format , "make" the following work in true tabular form , but perhaps the idea is clear enough:
HOW WOULD ONE "GET DINNER TOGETHER":
...........................Prepare.....Make......Fix......
USA/AUS,NZ/UK/SUBC/.................................
REGIONAL............................................
URBAN/RURAL.........................................
U/NON-U ...........................................
AU COURANT/OLD-FASHIONED ..........................
TV/RADIO STANDARD USAGE ..........................
PERSONAL CHOICE OF WORD ..........................
I'll cast my vote to start. I would say "FIX" dinner, but "make a cake". That usage is heard in, at least, some parts of USA. 1.(make dinner "sounds" Northern or Western USA to me(or maybe just TVtalk), but may not be. (That is one of the usages about which I am curious.)In fact, fix dinner may be purely Southern "regional" usage), 2."slightly rural"?(tho I live in a city w/ pop. 1MM++), 3."both U and Non-U" here, and perhaps a little 4. "Old-fashioned" e.g. my children(who grew up saying "fix dinner" now say "make dinner" although they still live in this city. This is NOT our most burning issue, but it is a little usage quirk which may prove interesting, esp w/ respect to the usage in the other parts of the English-speaking world.
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#26075
04/08/2001 9:49 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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On "Dinner", there phrase I hear mosy often is simply "cook" - "whose turn is it to cook dinner?". Among those I know, "prepare" would be formal, and "get dinner ready" would be quite common. "Make" is less common, but not unheard of. In summary, dinner here is indeed an ambigu.
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#26076
04/08/2001 10:22 PM
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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>Bridget: English-French pairings
One I immediately thought of was that old euphemism "the French vice." The French certainly would have used a different term, but I'm not sure what it was. Somehow "the English vice" doesn't ring a bell...
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#26077
04/08/2001 11:00 PM
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member
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Faldage:
>To knock someone up:
>US To get someone pregnant
>UK ? To visit someone ? To come by and pick someone up ?
In the UK: to knock on their door until they wake up.
Now onto another difference. An incident at the Sarajevo olympics which shows just how confusing the same language can be, even when spoken by neighbours.
Otto Jelinek, Canada's federal Minister of Amateur Sport at the time, was holding a press conference to complain about some ruling by some olympic official. For some reason, Canadian reporters couldn't get there on time so they asked their American colleagues what happened. They were told that the minister was clearly quite pissed.
Unfortunately, the American "He's pissed" means he's very angry. The Canadian equivalent is "pissed off". In Canada, if you say someone was pissed it means that they were drunk. Needless to say, several major newspapers had to apologise after printing headlines, "Minister obviously drunk at press conference".
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#26078
04/08/2001 11:05 PM
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Th "pissed/pissed off" usage is the same in Zild as in Canada, it eems. "Pissed" is drunk, "pissed off" is angry. The influence of US TV means that, given context, "pissed would likely be understood correctly if used with the US meaning.
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#26079
04/09/2001 12:57 AM
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I have never heard "pissed" meaning drunk. I heard "pissed off" meaning angry in the army fifty years ago, but it made no sense to me. (I would have been very angry if "pissed on".)
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#26080
04/09/2001 3:55 AM
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Th "pissed/pissed off" usage is the same in Zild as in Canada, it eems. "Pissed" is drunk, "pissed off" is angry. The influence of US TV means that, given context, "pissed would likely be understood correctly if used with the US meaning.
Well, yes and no, Max. I've heard people here say "He's pissed" meaning annoyed. A kind of verbal shorthand, I think. You guess the meaning from context.
Similarly, if you say you knocked someone up at 3 a.m., no one here will doubt that you banged on their door or something similar. Or they will assume you are a stopwatch fetishist, I guess. If you were to say you knocked Jill up without the time referent, it would be assumed the lady in question was now in the family way. Again, it's largely context.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#26081
04/09/2001 8:01 AM
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French Letters=condom in UK (==> Johnnies from "Johnny Frenchman"??? and why "Johnny frenchman?))
Capotes Anglaises = English Caps= condom in French. (and Bill, please post your joke about "capotes")
A couple more now we have traveled this far down the slippery slope.
Shag = copulate, copulation in UK and a dance in US. Presumably though since "The spy who shagged me" (freudian slip - I originally typed "spay" but that's in another recent thread) it has the same meaning in US. "Shaggin' on the boulevard" caused a little ripple of amusement this side of the pond.
One the delights of the Saturday UK Times is the political cartoon by Peter Brookes in the form of Nature Notes. They are usually topical to UK and show people (usually politicians) in the guise of various animals with notes. But a year or so ago they had Clinton as a Shag, which is an alternative name for a cormorant, complete with "kink in his pecker"
Fanny = butt (US), female genitalia (UK).
Rod
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#26082
04/09/2001 12:03 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fix has the meaning of repair and also the meaning of solidifying in its present state. The photgraphic development process consists of three phases: the developing, in which the light exposed chemicals on the film are converted to a form that is visible to the eye; the stop bath, in which the chemical process in phase one is brought to an end; and the fixing, in which the new chemical state is made permanent.
Additionally, in (mostly) southern American English, fixin' to do something means preparing to do it, whether physically, by collecting the tools and preparing the workspace or, more commonly, mentally as in "I'm fixin' to get the lawn mowed rat now Honeybunch, jus as quick as I get done watching this here tractor pull on the TV."
And, Jackie, you sayin I kin git eggs an brains fer breakfast ther in Loouhv'lle?
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#26083
04/09/2001 1:08 PM
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"Shaggin' on the boulevard" caused a little ripple of amusement this side of the pond.
I think it's time we introduced 'suspender' into this downward slide. Particularly the classic Alex cartoon (UK newspapers - not sure who has this yuppy now?) where wimpy yuppy Clive plaintively asks his American girlfriend if she would do something to brighten up their sex life 'like wear suspenders or something'. The final picture shows him in total confusion and disappointment when she turns up in what all good British yuppies know as braces.
(PS Rapunzel was right. La vice anglaise. I just never think of the euphemism 'the English vice' in English. Thank you!)
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#26084
04/09/2001 1:32 PM
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In the mining villages (and presumably with other industries) they used to have long before alarm radios a job of "Knocker-upper" (nice work if you can get it!) who went round the village with a list of those on the early shift and a long pole which was knocked on windows. (oh - I don't want the job now thanks).
Rod
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#26085
04/09/2001 1:34 PM
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and of course I perplexed my US hostess when I asked if I could help lay the table.
Following on from wash up, there are differences on the room where one (or even more) excretes. The US usage of bathroom for this is only following a long tradition; lavatory, toilet, any others? But when asking for a "bathroom" in UK you would be shown a room that had a bath in it but not necessarily a toilet/lavatory.
Rod
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#26086
04/09/2001 1:57 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I perplexed my US hostess when I asked if I could help lay the table
There would be no confusion at my house. And your offer would be accepted with pleasure.
Perhaps it's because NEW England was settled by the English and some phrases are still used. Although -- Hmmm -- in many homes they say "set the table" but your offer would be generally understood in New England.
Could it be I am getting old and the phrase is dropping from general use?
wow
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#26087
04/09/2001 3:07 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Knowing how much you like knockers, Rod, here’s another couple for you to (go)ogle http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=5243Apart from being another fine example of our highly focussed discussions, it was significant for marking the entrance of the delightful BelM to this forum
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#26088
04/09/2001 4:49 PM
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Durex (Aus) = Sellotape (UK) = Scotch Tape (US) While I don't have any Australians easily to hand, I will ask my son who is due back from a contract (not that kind) in Melbourne this weekend. Googling seems to perpetuate the myth if it is one, and you may be amused by http://www.toxiccustard.com/australia/other.html which also mentions 4X (Aus) = beer (and in UK now) = condom in US. True? If so does the name refer to the magnification factor as in binoculars, Surely not the number of times.. no I won't ask. Rod
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#26089
04/09/2001 5:43 PM
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veteran
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veteran
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English/French pairs
There's the french pox (venereal disease we now call it). I believe there is a corresponding French term which calls it the English pox.
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#26090
04/09/2001 5:50 PM
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veteran
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fixing
Another post in this thread mentioned almost writing 'spay' in the wrong place. Actually, it goes here. It is not uncommon in the U.S. to speak of "taking the dog to be fixed" or to say, "my dog has been fixed," meaning, to be spayed or neutered.
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#26091
04/09/2001 6:23 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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There's the french pox (venereal disease we now call it). I believe there is a corresponding French term which calls it the English pox....suggesting not just mutual recrimination, but mutual affection.
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#26092
04/09/2001 7:09 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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So, now I am wondering what the English and French terms are for "French kiss." Does anyone know?
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#26093
04/09/2001 10:26 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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True? If so does the name refer to the magnification factor as in binoculars, Surely not the number of times.. no I won't ask.The polite explanation given in NZ is that Queenslanders can't spell "beer".
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#26094
04/09/2001 10:28 PM
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what the English and French terms are for "French kiss." 
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#26095
04/10/2001 2:11 AM
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>what the English and French terms are for "French kiss."
French kiss
n. baiser (masc) profond
vt. embrasser sur la bouche (avec la langue)
vi. s'embrasser sur la bouche (avec la langue)
la langue = tongue
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#26096
04/10/2001 4:21 AM
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old hand
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old hand
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...ahem... far, oh so very far, be it for me to be prudish, but... "rubbers" are equvalent to "galoshes" (I might be the only one
(my age (whatever that is)) left on this side of the pond to wear them)
I want my word back!!!This jogged a memory of 11th grade, lo these many years ago. The English text had a sentence in it as follows: "Why do boys detest wearing rubbers more than girls? With their superior strength, boys should be able to jerk rubbers on and off more expertly than girls. The real test, however, is putting rubbers on a squirming three-year-old. Girls are better at this than boys." Since the slang term for condoms had become "rubbers" by then (1961) we teenagers howled with laughter at this archaic bit of drivel. The following year the texts had been recalled, and "rubbers" rendered "overshoes." Why do I remember this passage verbatim from forty years ago when I can't even remember to comb my hair? Oh, that's right - I don't have any hair. Bad example. Oh, the mind does play tricks. 
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#26097
04/10/2001 4:29 AM
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old hand
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old hand
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There's the french pox (venereal disease we now call it). I believe there is a corresponding French term which calls it the
English pox.
...suggesting not just mutual recrimination, but mutual affection.[/green/]
Thus you refer to your contagious girlfriend as the object of your infection?
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#26098
04/10/2001 4:07 PM
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wow,
This just in...
>what the English and French terms are for "French kiss."
According to my dear wife, a French kiss is "un bec a la francais". Now this might be particular to the French area of northern Ontario she is from, but when I did a reverse search in my Larousse it lists bec as (fam Belg, Helv & Can) [baiser] kiss.
You didn't ask, but in German French kiss is:
n. französischer Kuß (ugs.); Zungenkuß, der
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#26099
04/11/2001 7:52 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I was thinking about this thread -- and realized condom--was not the first association i had with rubber-- (nor was eraser)
sometimes i "burn rubber"-- take off in "jack rabbit" start, with tires squealing--(and leave those middle age men in their new sports cars to eat my dust-- I drive 5 on the floor-- and have driven stick for 30 years...I know how to pop the clutch and get my little 4 cylinder engine into gear...)
or tell someone "that where the rubber meets the road"-- the place where action replaces talk
or "lay down rubber"-- exit and put some distance between myself and whatever
and while i don't often play cards-- if i did-- it would be an other rubber of gin.
while rubber can =condom, more often "trojians"=condoms (a specific brand)
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