#25340
03/29/2001 5:55 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Per request from inselpeter in WordPlay
Nautical Terms:
Walls --- transverse members of the ribs between the double bottoms.
Ceiling -- The inner hull; the inner part of the double bottoms. Generally not watertight.
Door -- An opening through a bulkhead.
Hatch -- An opening through a deck.
Manhole -- An opening through a hatch.
Quiz question:
Where are the head lights on a ship?
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#25341
03/29/2001 7:00 PM
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A great source for more obscure nautical terms is A Sea of Words by Dean King. It's a companion book to the Patrick O'Brian novels (which I recommended in the Book Recommendations thread) and really has some amazing stuff. Unfortunately, it somehow missed a few key phrases used in the books, most notably "a cheese of wads."
In spite of reading lots of fiction set during the age of sail, I haven't heard the term head lights. It may be more modern - but I'd guess it means the light in the head, aka the privy.
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#25342
03/29/2001 7:33 PM
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veteran
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I agree with Hyla about the head lights.
Re ceiling: A ship which is going to carry foodstuffs, like grain, in bulk, which is poured/loaded directly, and with no packaging of any kind, into the hold of a ship, generally has to be protected from contamination, moisture and rats by a ceiling. There are ship ceilers, who build a ceiling, or wooden inner liner, in the holds, and it covers the bottom and walls (bulkheads) of the hold. Hence, the bottom, which a landlubber would call a floor, is a ceiling! There's glory for you.
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#25343
03/29/2001 7:46 PM
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ladders = stairs
abaft = towards the rear, or stern
abeam = at right angles to the keel, across the width
able-bodied [seaman] = experienced, but not necessarily entirely physically capable
forward = towards the front, or prow
starboard = right side, when facing forward
port = left side, when facing forward
larboard = obsolete term for 'port'
pitch = to rock back to front or vice versa, along the axis of the keel
roll = to rock sideways, at right angles (more or less) to the keel
heave = to rock up and down
yaw = slide down [a wave] in a diagonal direction
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#25344
03/29/2001 8:09 PM
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able-bodied [seaman]
A crew-member was typically rated as the above when he demonstrated that he could "hand, reef, and steer."
This means he could: roll up and secure (or furl) a sail, tie a reef knot (and presumably other needed knots), and steer the ship when on duty at the helm.
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#25345
03/29/2001 11:23 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Here are some I especially like, culled from yours:
larboard
yaw
hand, reef, and steer.
ship ceiler
I guess I'm looking for words that came with the sea, salt crusts and drowning. Parts of boats we've seen, like jib or thwart, a reef I sailed past once outside Gloucester Harbor: The Reef of Norman's woe. Bow sprits (fog sprits, to take a gander at your riddle, faldage). I liked yar when Catherine Hepburn said it. All those things Melville goes on and on with in the 90% primer that's Moby Dick. Romantic stuff. In Flensburg, I think it is, there's a bronze statue of a fisherman, wet and bone cold, carrying his drowned daughter in his arms. What words would he have used then?
Thanks,
Binky
[bad pun intentionally omitted]
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#25346
03/29/2001 11:43 PM
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Not sure what the fisherman would have said, but he would certainly have wondered what the hell his daughter was doing on board his boat. In the age of sail, at least in Europe, it was generally considered bad luck to have a woman on board ship, and I understand that persists to some degree. Related to this, one very interesting term is "Jonah" - in the case of a ship that was having a run of bad luck (losing battles, not catching fish, whatever) this was applied to the individual sailor who was thought to be the source of the bad luck. He would often be singled out because of some oddity or flaw of his character, such as being left-handed  or holding unorthodox beliefs. I assume the term comes from the biblical character swallowed by the whale, but I've never looked into the etymology. One of my favorite terms for describing a location on a ship is "abaft the starboard mainchains." I'm also partial to hawse-hole - the hole where the anchor cable passed out of the cable tier and attached to the anchor - as well as cathead - which I think is where the anchor hangs when not in use, but I don't recall for sure. If this thread survives until Monday, perhaps I'll grab my copy of Sea of Words and provide a few more gems. Hyla verbosii nauticalorum
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#25347
03/29/2001 11:53 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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<<I assume the term comes from the biblical character swallowed by the whale, but I've never looked into the etymology.>>
Can't remember the story, exactly. They put Jonah in the hold when the storm came up, and when they threw him overboard, it instantly abated. I might have that wrong, but someone's bound to right it.
There's a wonderful quasi-cabalistic interpretation of the tale, that put's Johna in the furthest reaches of hell. So deep, God can't hear him when he calls to Him.
Binky
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#25348
03/30/2001 12:36 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Companionway - another word for "stairs"
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#25349
03/30/2001 1:31 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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there's a bronze statue of a fisherman, wet and bone cold, carrying his drowned daughter in his arms. What words would he have used then?
"Out of the depths I cry, O Lord, hear me."
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#25350
03/30/2001 2:44 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Naturally, the next question will be where these words come from.
Binky
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#25351
03/30/2001 4:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18
stranger
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stranger
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Hello,
One word that is said to have arisen from travelling by sea is `posh'. I read in a book, on British rule in India, that it is an abbreviation for `portside outward starboard homeword' to signify the best rooms in the ship to avoid the heat while travelling from Europe to Asia and back. However, the M-W Online Dictionary says that the etymology is unknown, and the word appeared in 1918.
Regards,
Manoj.
Bangalore India
12°58' N, 77°39' E
http://www.geocities.com/kummini/
Bangalore India
12°58' N, 77°39' E
http://www.geocities.com/kummini/index.html
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#25352
03/30/2001 8:21 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A problem which was rarely, if ever, encountered in the days of sail, but which is very much a problem with today's much larger ships and particularly oil tankers, is "hogging" and "sagging". Hogging is where the ship is "crested" on a large wave with little or no water supporting the ends of the ship. Sagging is when the ship is supported by two waves, one at either end of the ship, allowing it to sag between them. It's the reason why half the oil tankers which sink go down. They twist and distort as they hog and sag and eventually the ship's back is broken. Hello, Davy Jones! (no, NOT the little git in the Monkees!)
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#25353
03/30/2001 9:54 AM
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"Show (or shake) a Leg" (now) meaning "to get out of bed" Supposedly shouted at sailors in their hammocks either (by some sources) to prove they were awake, or (by others) to prove that the lump still in the hammock was female and was still entitled to be sleeping off the night's exertions before she was bundled back ashore with the other prostitutes. And, no, there was not enough room to try standing up.  HMS Victory in Portsmouth (UK) is an excellent visit to see what conditions were like in the good old days. Rod Ward
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#25354
03/30/2001 9:59 AM
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Ceiling -- The inner hull; the inner part of the double bottoms. Generally not watertightThe larger amongst us might be interested in the term "Ceiling" for a double bottom. I'm not quite so certain about the "Generally not watertight" bit.  Rod Ward
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#25355
03/30/2001 10:06 AM
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heads:- related word ????
I remember (30 years ago now) coming across the term "go-head" for the type of footwear that was just a rubber sole with a toe strap. I was offered two etymologies:
1) That you could only "go ahead", if you walked backwards, the shoe fell off.
2) That you used them to "go to the head", which could be mucky and slippery, but they could be rinsed.
Any one else remember this term? Is it still current? Comments on the origins?
Rod Ward
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#25356
03/30/2001 12:06 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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It's the reason why half the oil tankers which sink go down.
Cap,
And why the other the half that sink stay afloat! (Sorry, *love* the post, but can't help myself.)
This is Binky, wishing you a pleasant from the rings of Saturn, signing off.
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#25357
03/30/2001 1:02 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I'm not sure about the "Generally not watertight" bit either. I don't remember that being pointed out during my Navy days. I ran into it recently, I think on the radio.
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#25358
03/30/2001 1:33 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Here's a few to go on with as I think awhile :
Line Honors An Australian term for being the first yacht to finish in an ocean going race.
Rocks and shoals those parts of the U.S. Navy regulations which concern punishment for offenses. They were read (in former days) periodically by the executive officer of a naval vessel to the assembled company.
Jimmy Squarefoot a mythical being at the sea bottom (Davy Jones)
aweigh the position of an anchor which has been broken out and is off the bottom. (as in "Anchors aweigh my lads" navy song)
away an order to shove off - "Away boats." Also to lower a boat or draft of cargo - "Lower away."
And by the way, for the non-nautical the title Boatswain is pronounced Bo's'n. (a subordinate but very valuable officer; a warrant officer of great importance in naval service. )
wow
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#25359
03/30/2001 6:06 PM
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veteran
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hogging
Actually, hogging was indeed a problem in the days of sail, at least with wooden ships, in which context it means a warping or bowing upward of the keel, which causes the nails and spikes to start and the strakes to bow, eventually becoming catastrophic. This problem was detected a few years ago in the Constellation, the tourist centerpiece of Baltimore's Inner Harbor. Constellation was earlier thought to be the sister ship of Constitution, or "Old Ironsides", which is in Boston harbor, and thus of Revolutionary War vintage; but research about 10 years ago established definitively that the original Constellation was lost in the 1840's and the present ship is a newer ship built about 1855, carrying the same name, but very much like the original in appearance. Anyway, when it was discovered that she was hogging, a number of local businesses and persons gave money, as did the City and the State, for repairs, which came to several million dollars. She was towed from her berth in the inner harbor with emergency auxiliary boats alongside in case she sank en route, but she didn't. Most of the planking near the keel and all the lower decking etc. had to be removed so the keel could be straightened; then everything went back together. Took 2 years, but the old girl is back in her place and looking better than ever. Needless to say, in Baltimore we're as proud of her as Bostonians are of Constitution.
Back to words:
A favorite of mine, encountered in Horatio Hornblower novels, is "handsomely", which, I believe means "slowly" (or is it the opposite?) I checked the MW in my office and the on-line dictionaries and thesaurus, but they don't have this meaning listed.
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#25360
03/30/2001 6:59 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Line Honors An Australian term for being the first yacht to finish in an ocean going race.
¿Qué? I was of the impression that line honours was the standard term for it, not simply an Australian term. I have heard it used in British commentary for the race at Cowes, and it is of course routinely heard in connexion with the various round-the-world races. It recognises the fact that the boats may be in different size classes, so the boat that crosses first may not win, on handicap.
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#25361
03/30/2001 7:17 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rocks and shoals
In my day the lifers, when they wanted to stress how bad it used to be, and how we were such wimps for complaining, would assault us with tales of life in the Old Navy under the Rocks and Shoals. That was the slang term for the rules that preceded the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under the UCMJ the common sailor has some rights and can't be taken out and shot at the whim of the Captain. Whenever I see some innocent youngster tromping around in some article of clothing with Old Navy stamped all over it I think of the old days under the Rocks and Shoals and wonder all over again why someone would be proud of it.
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#25362
03/30/2001 7:50 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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The good old days of iron men in wooden ships, versus todays iron ships and wooden men.
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#25363
03/30/2001 7:52 PM
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Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Scuttlebutt.
A scuttle is an opening in a hatch or the side of a ship to admit air. In the olden days, they kept the drinking water in a cask - a butt - on deck, with a hole - a scuttle - cut in its side. Sailors gathered around the scuttlebutt to drink, and naturally watercooler talk ensued. Hence, "scuttlebutt" came to refer to gossip.
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#25364
03/30/2001 8:23 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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scud or scudding-- to move swifty
scudding to to run before a gale-- white sails in a scudding race with the clouds..--
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#25365
04/08/2001 2:44 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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#25366
04/08/2001 3:41 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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The sheet anchor - in bygone days- was carried in the waist (between the forecastle and quarterdeck) and was the largest anchor and was always ready for use in an emergency. The term came to mean "security" among seamen.
There is a rare but extraordinary book called "The Young Officer's Sheet Anchor" which was often given to young officers setting out on their first voyage.
It contains, among other things, sail settings for various situations and was an invaluable guide for men in ships under sail.
wow
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#25367
04/08/2001 4:11 PM
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Recalled a few more great nautical terms (and, Mr. Youngbalt, if you're a Hornblower fan, do be sure you've read the Patrick O'Brian series as well - different, but equally good).
One of my favorites, still in circulation today in non-nautical parlance, but of nautical origin is "slush fund." Slush was the fat used by the ship's cook for frying, etc. - and was considered quite a delicacy. "Slush fund" may have evolved a couple of ways - either that the cook could essentially use the slush as money, buying things from the crew in exchange for slush for their bread - a real treat in the days of salpork and dried peas. Or the cook actually had a fund of money, to be used in port to procure slush and other necessities specific to the cook - but which could end up being used somewhat flexibly, should the cook need to procure something else. In either case, it means a resource, not monitored by the powers that be, that can be used to acquire things outside of the official manner. There's a vary brief, colorul discussion of this in one of Patrick O'Brian's novels, but, alas, they are all stowed belowdecks in preparation for my family weighing anchor and setting a course for our new house.
Handsomely, used at sea or by seaman, does in fact mean slowly, with a connotation of carefully as well.
Another favorite, which I tried to use in day-to-day parlance for a while, but which failed to take, is "light along." It means "bring me" as in "light along my best glass, there's a ship hull-up [meaning hull is visible, so it's fairly close] on the horizon." It also means to help out in hauling on lines of various sorts.
Speaking of lines - we discussed sheets, etc. - there are actually quite a few different types of lines.
sheets - line used to haul sails
shrouds - main lines used in the rigging
ratlines - short horizontal lines used in the rigging - usually made of rope covered in tar
braces - line attached to the end of a yard (horizontal beam off the mast), used to swing the sail
cable - anchor line - cut to a standard length, and thus also used as a unit of measure (100 fathoms)
hawser - heaviest line, I believe
That's all I've got for now.
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#25368
04/08/2001 4:26 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Cool, Hyla, thanks! 
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#25369
04/08/2001 10:32 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Max wrote :I was of the impression that line honours was the standard term for it, not simply an Australian term.
In my Mariner's Dictionary it is spelled Line Honours. When I posted I wrote Honors ...ooops!
Could the spelling make a difference?
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#25370
04/08/2001 10:36 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Could the spelling make a difference?I would not have thought so. The rest of us would expect USn's to use their trademark "Reader's Digest condensed" spelling! 
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#25371
04/09/2001 4:12 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Slush was the fat used by the ship's cook for frying, etc. - and was considered quite a delicacy.
"Slushy" was often the name the ship's cook went by. They were considered uncouth and grasping by the seamen, particularly during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Quite often, the slush fund was used by the cook for the cook's personal benefit, particularly on ill-run ships where the officers couldn't have cared less about the welfare of the men. I read somewhere about a particularly tyrannical cook who managed to amass most of the men's paid wages during a voyage. When the ship returned home, the cook went missing and was never seen or heard from again. 'Ware slush funds!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#25372
04/09/2001 12:40 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Reader's Digest condensed" spelling!
Oooh! Max!
Touché
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#25373
04/10/2001 9:29 AM
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Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I've always been partial to Royal Naval slang, which is colourful and expressive. I have probably forgotten more than I remember, but some of the notable expressions are:- "Hoggin" - short for hogwash, i.e. the sea "Killick" - a leading hand, e.g, a "killick sparks" was a Leading Telegraphist" (actually a radio operator). The Petty Officer Telegraphist, naturally enough, was known as POTS. Seamen involved with visual signals were know as "Flags" or "Bunty" (for "bunting"). Stokers were always referred to as being "hairy-eared"  (actually, it wasn't their ears that were mentioned, but an entirely lower area of their anatomy - but delicacy forbids, etc) Whenever a feast was arranged - usually on shore, rather than on board - it was referred to as "Big Eats!" Another endearing habit of the RN was to issue the order "lash up and stow" soon afgter reveille, right on into the 1960s (possibly even into the 70s), long after safe, comfortable hammocks had been replaced by highly uncomfortable bunks There are hundreds more - and they changed from time to time, of course, so that you may tell when an ex-matelot served by the slang he uses. Anmd this is not even touching on the topic of nick-names! That almost deserves a thread of its own.
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#25374
04/10/2001 12:31 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Hoggin" - short for hogwashThanks for that! Funny thing language - I have staggered through life having heard that (as a kid) as 'oggin', which I had assumed was simply a playful stab at 'ocean'! So I have learnt my Fact-A-Day early this lunchtime
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#25375
04/10/2001 12:44 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rhuby has always been partial to Royal Naval slang.
Some American examples:
Signalman: Skivvie Waver. Skivvies are underpants.
Machinist's Mate: Mickey Mouse. The abbreviation is MM and the symbol worn on the uniform is a three bladed ship's propeller that looks like a Mickey Mouse head.
Hospital Corpsman: Aviation Snake Charmer. The symbols worn on the uniform for aviation ratings usually were the equivalent of the non-aviation version with the addition of wings. Electronics techs had a helium atom, avaition electronics techs had a winged helium atom. The hospital corpsman symbol was a caduceus.
Boatswain's Mate: Deck Ape. Also a generic term to indicate someone not a snipe, a seabee or an Airedale (q.v.)
General term for ratings that worked on the machinery of the ship: Snipe. This included the classic snipe ratings; Machinist's Mate, Engineman, etc. and also Electrican's Mate.
Electronics Technician: Super Snipe. It was originally a snipe rating before it became a deck ape rating.
Aviation anything: Airedale. Also Brown Shoe (no rational reason for this one)
Constructionman: Seabee. These were the guys that left notes behind on the beaches after they prepped them for the Marine landing forces in the Pacific in WWII.
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#25376
04/10/2001 2:21 PM
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Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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In reply to:
"Hoggin" - short for hogwash, i.e. the sea
Around here, "hogwash" means "nonsense." I wonder if there is a relationship to the nautical hogwash, and how?
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#25377
04/10/2001 2:31 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Thanks for that lot, Faldage - adds credence to the belief that all naval types are linguistically inventive.
As to "Brown shoes" - in the UK, the first military aviators were army officers, with khaki uniform and brown shoes. I believe it was the same in the USA (you still call it the Army Air Force, I believe?) Did the USAAF fly from naval ships for a while, before the Naval air forces were formed? This would account a term for the strangely uniformed fellows mixed in with the blue-uniformed navy people.
Just a hypothesis - anyone know the truth?
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#25378
04/10/2001 2:52 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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(you still call it the Army Air Force, I believe?)
Not since end of The Late Great Misunderstanding when Air Force was established as a separate branch of the Armed Forces.
It is now : United States Air Force (USAF)
In WWII Army Air Force Officers sometimes went overseas aboard troop ships.
The only time I know for sure that the Army Air Force flew off US warship was from the "Hornet" which was the "base" for the famous raid on Japan led by General Jimmy Doolittle.
As for shoes, navy officers, in peacetime, used to wear white shoes with the white uniforms used in warm climes and as they came down ladders the shoes were a tip off to crew that an officer was descending on them (and the illegal craps game!)
wow
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#25379
04/10/2001 2:57 PM
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Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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When the UK warships were making regular good will visits to Portsmouth New Hampshire in the mid-1980s we all learned a new word. British seamen serving aboard all answered to the name "Taff."
Anyone know anything about that nickname?
wow
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