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To me (UK) Horse rhymes with Sauce = sorse, not Hoss with Soss. No doubt about it.
Ro* Ward
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bilabial = using BOTH sets of lips???
Ro* Ward
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Most slangs serve several purposes, including excluding strangers including members of the group. I presume that the current teenage fashion for rhyming slang is just a fashion, and will move back to rap or on to whatever comes next, with the most memorable and useful phrases sticking a bit longer.
The phrase "I Adam and Eve you" is not commonly used, but the construction "Would you Adam'n'eve it?" is fairly common. Remember that many (most?) constructions lost the rhyming second half, so China = China Plate = mate (friend)and so the synonym is not particularly long or awkward.
I think it was the Two Ronnies (UK TV) which had a sketch entirely in Rhyming slang but the two participants each had a completely different rhyming pair and meaning which had to be unravelled with humourous results.
Ro* Ward
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Pooh-Bah
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Ben, Ro! You're right, thanks.
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Carpal Tunnel
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'Ave a butcher's at http://www.bio.nrc.ca/cockney/. And get that expression off your Chevy Chase :-)
Hi BY, went to the link thinking I'd find the "translation" for the bits I couldn't understand in the Cockney paragraph.
No joy!
Is there a translation that would help out?
OK, so I'm lazy today.
wow
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I have translated the words I knew [from memory] [updated from looking at my 5 shilling (!) Guide to Cockney] and thought you might not! I don't know all the rhyming pairs and some may not have any. In general but not common English usage, as far as I am aware, Karsi, Adam's Ale, Shank's Pony, Arrows, Geordie, Brummie, Scouser, Pony, nicked, Butcher's,
I was in the Karsi [toilet], sitting on me Kyber [-pass=arse], using the grey matter, when I thought, wouldn't it be nice if me Dutch [(prob.)-ess of Fife =wife] made some Rosy [-lee=tea]. She got some fresh Adam's [-Ants=pants or Adam's Ale=water] there. So I went down the Apples [and pears=stairs] and told her. We could go up to the Rubba [-DubDub=Pub]. Me in me best Whistle [and Flute=suit] and Titfer [-tat=hat] and me new Daisy's [-roots=boots], and her in her best bib and tucker with her new Tile[should know can't remember]. It's a long Frog[and taod=road] but we'd do it O.K. on Shank's Pony[own legs]. That's if our Plates [of meat=feet] last out. Probably see a couple of me Chinas[Plates=mates] there with the Arrows[=darts] and a Pig[-'s ear=Beer] or two. One's a Brummie [from Birmingham], one's a Scouse [Liverpool]. He might have his Geordie [Newcastle] mate with him too.[Editor's note: they would need a 4-way translator!!] Could see another China of the way, he's a Septic [-tank=yank] [ed; Sorry -5] but not a bad bloke. Likes to knock you a bit though. If I see the Runner [for a bookie], I'll probably put a Pony [25 pounds] on a Nag [horse], but if there is a Peeler [Robert Peel home secretary when policeman started] about, he'll probably have it on his toes. If he gets Nicked [arrested] he'll be Banged up for a full moon. I'll ask for a Butcher's [-hook=look] at the form if he's on his Jack [Todd=alone I'll find out why]. If I win I'll get a Lardy {-dah=cigar] and some snout[tobacco] for her. She's a bit Mutton[prob. Mutt'n'Jeff=Deaf which I discarded earlier but can't find anything else] at the moment but you should see the Minces[-Pies=eyes] in her Boat[-race=face. Ok so Oxford was robbed] and her Barnet[-Fair=Hair] is a joy to behold. Won't even mention her North and South [actually Norf'n'Sarf=mouth. Ooright guvn'r "marf"]. Lovely as ever.
[And no I didn't try Enigma!]
Rod Ward
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The UK Times this Saturday (31st March 2001) headlined an article on a public garden "You can Adam and Eve it". They presumably think that most readers would understand the reference. (and I agree).
Rod
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I've just picked up on this thread, which is a particular interest of mine.
Congratulation, Rod, for a masterly transcription of by's wonderful rhyming narrative.
I have one disagreement with you, which is ove "... on his Jack ..." The rhyming couplet is Jack Jones = alone, which is of fairly modern provenance (ref to Jack Jones, the Trades Union Leader.) b-y could have used, " ..on his Todd ..." for the same meaning; I am not absolutely certain of the provenance of this one, which is far older. I think that the couplet is Todd Malone = alone, and he was probably a sportsman (prize-fighter?) in the mid C19. I'm at work, so can't look up my prize ring references, but it certainly rings a bell (sorry!!)
BelM inmplied that it was a war-time camoflage of language, but it is very much older than that, probably dating back to the C18, certainly strongly in use in the C19. It's purpose was to allow the costers (= street traders, or "barrow-boys") to converse without either the "punters" (their customers) or the "rozzers" (= peelers, bobbies, blue-boys = police) to understand what they were talkong about. Essential when you were a) taking advantage of your customers, b) dealing in stolen goods = probably both at the same time!
As you will have noticed from Rod's transcription, not all of the words are rhyming slang - there is a whole lot of thieves cant and Romany words in use as well (e.g. karsi, which is a Romany word for the area beyond the caravan where you go to relieve yourself.) When spoken fast and in a strong East End accent, it is impossible for an outsider to break the code - not least because the rhyming slang changes frequently.
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Carpal Tunnel
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the rhyming slang changes frequently
... which is the creative spur that continues, I suspect, to give this language form such amazing life, eh Rhuby?
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