#24201
03/24/2001 5:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
Well, maybe you're right. I was very knew in Ger'y when I heard him say that. It was the only thing I understood--and I may not even have understood *that* much.
In future, I will keep my romings to my own affairs. Adieu! IP
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#24202
03/24/2001 10:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
Thanks, tsuwm for filling in the background on decimate. I was quite confident that the usage my Chambers calls "loose" was established by the 19th C., and it's nice to know that I was not far off. My view on decimate was that it was a word with a specific, technically correct word usurped for broader use, much the way that the specific, technical definition of epidemic appears to be under threat from a broader use. I shall, however, revel in using "epizootic" just to show off. 
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#24203
03/25/2001 1:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 76
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 76 |
So complicated! I dare not think about why the difference between "blinkers" and "blinders."
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#24204
03/26/2001 2:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
What do you mean Blanche? Aren`t they two different things?
Here, blinkers are those lights on the backs of cars that blink on and off to tell which side you are turning. It can also be used to describe any light that blinks on and off (like Christmas lights). Blinders are those things you put on a horse's face so that he can only see in front of him; not side to side.
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#24205
03/26/2001 4:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
My dictionary gives "blinders" as synonym for "blinkers" meaning small squares of leather attached to bridle that block the horse's vision of things on either side, to keep it from being disturbed by them;.
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#24206
03/26/2001 4:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
We should not take lightly the corruption of "decimate"
Decimation was originally a punishment meted out to mutinous legions in the Roman army. Everyone was lined up and they counted off by tens. Then every number (e.g.) three was taken out and shot. Well, OK, they didn't shoot them but the effect was the same, they came out of the experience dead. But, Note! Everyone else was scattered about amongst other legions, so the legion that was decimated had no one left in it. Generalizing the definition of decimation to include other effects than just a simple reduction in number by 1/10th seems to me a minor thing to quibble about.
Better we should save our energies for whinging about such travesties as referring to naprons as aprons or requiring that money change hands for the word sell to be used
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#24207
03/26/2001 4:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Re: they came out of the experience dead.
Did they come out as Debutants? or did they come out of the closet?( -- maybe they didn't have the don't ask/don't tell policy) Just how did they come out?
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#24208
03/26/2001 5:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The spreader of sheep effluvia: they came out of the experience dead.
La hija de Dios: Did they come out as Debutants? or did they come out of the closet?( -- maybe they didn't have the don't ask/don't tell policy) Just how did they come out?
The spreader of sheep effluvia: Whether or not they had the policy, they were in no condition to tell. You could ask them till you're blue in the face.
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#24209
03/26/2001 5:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
or till they were blue-- I am not sure of the "color" progression after death-- (depending on position, etc..)
--but this thread has discussed autopsies-- and we do have Dr. Bill, who might have some memory-- (an article in last week's New Yorker pointed out autopies are becoming uncommon in most US hospitals).
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#24210
03/26/2001 5:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
Interesting - I'd never heard of blinders being synonymous with blinkers. I've always used blinkers for the bits of leather on a horse's bridle. For me, a blinder is a word used to describe something that is absolutely fantastic - eg, a blinder of an idea. This can also be sometimes contracted, as in: 'Henry came up with an absolute blinder'.
As to the epidemic/epizootic, I think we're still in denial - I just keep hearing it referred to as a 'crisis'.
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#24211
03/30/2001 2:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
Thank you for directing me to Julian Burnside's excellent article on enantiodromic words http://www.users.bigpond.com/burnside/contradicting.htm; while it makes very clear what this class of words is, at the same time, it makes me doubt whether 'decimate' can be counted among them. The enantiodromic is a class of polysemic words whose meanings are opposite, but not contemporaries. They display a shift of meaning to opposite meaning over time. In terms real use, however, they will not, have retained both meanings when the shift is complete; and it is to be surmised that they cannot actually be classed enantiodromic until that shift is complete. Burnside uses another term, amphibolous, to describe the class of polysemic words whose opposite meanings are contemporaries, words such as: fast, quite, to sanction, and to weather. But while each may have to meanings, only one of these is meant in any given occurrence. The irony of paradox is not inherent in the use, but from the distance of linguistic investigation. Finally, in our March 24 exchange, you objected to an argument which you had mistakenly attributed to me. In one responses, you wrote think about how decimate would have been used in (A) and (B) and how the meanings would have become blurred. 1856 J. H. Newman Callista The population is prostrated by+pestilence, and by the decimation which their riot brought upon them. What percentage do you suppose was meant here? we can't know, out of context, but it was certainly not 10%.and in a later one inselp, I'm afraid I don't quite *get your point. are you saying you have a need to know the actual percentage? I don't think you are, but. >the result of a specific multiple what does this mean?Let me be clear, the point isn't one-upmanship. What interests me, here, is the logic of your responses. Superficially, the position attributed to me is ludicrous and objectionable on that ground. Fundamentally, however, you are pointing out a perceived fallacy in my argument. If the meaning shift in question is from ten percent to a percentage greater than ten percent, it is not the logical shift of a meaning to its opposite, but a shift in degree. This is what I intended when I used the word "to extrapolate." In its current common usage, "to decimate" is to destroy utterly. But "to destroy utterly" is not the opposite of "to destroy 10%." Further, we do not consider its original meaning when we here its common use-unless, as wwh, it is to point out an error. I maintain, however, that it is at least possible that, at one point in the career of its development, the irony of "to decimate" may have been recognized when it was used to mean "to destroy utterly." In that case, both meanings would inherent at one and the same time. And in that case, it is neither a word having more than one independent meanings at once, nor a word having opposite meanings but not in a single context, nor a word whose career carries it from one sense to its opposite. Then, if my conjecture at the top of the last paragraph is correct, "to decimate" would have, at least at one point in its history, have belonged to another class of words altogether. This is Binky, wishing you a pleasant from the rings of Saturn, signing off.
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#24212
07/23/2001 2:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I am glad to see that Anu is in favor of retaining the distinction between "epidemic" and "epizoõtic".
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#24213
07/23/2001 4:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
I realize I am joining this party rather late, but here goes.
When I was in medical school, we had several lectures in forensic pathology given by one of the state medical examiners, Dr. Davis. He's pointed out that
"autopsy" could mean "to see with one's own eyes" or it could mean "to see oneself." That is (in the latter case), for one human being to examine the corpse of another human being, they get a blimpse of their own anatomy and their own mortality.
"Epidemic" literally means "upon the people," so a disease upon the animals would be "epizootic," although as a new word to me it sounds like an adjective or at best a geologic era. I wonder if there were a disease that tended to spread among animals every 4 years, would it be an "episodic epizootic"? har har har har.
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#24214
07/23/2001 5:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
It is regrettable that so few people understand the medical advances that have resulted from discoveries made at autopsy. Unfortunately I know of no book that tells about them. But for instance, my mother's mother died of a pulmonary artery infarct because it was not known in 1891 that it was a very bad idea to keep women in bed many days after childbirth. Because no autopsy was done, the cause of my grandmother's death could not be understood, and the guesses as to the cause were wildly inaccurate.Only fifty years later when autopsies revealed the emboli blocking the right side of the heart were discovered could the causative factors be understood, and early ambulation be insisted on, with the saving of a very large number of mothers. Many other such discoveries have saved countless lives, so remember this if you are ever asked to give permission for an autopsy.
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#24215
07/24/2001 4:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Dr. Bill, you have delighted us all with your humour and medical titbits ever since you joined us here. If your health permits, why don't you write such a book?
Bingley
Bingley
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#24216
07/24/2001 1:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Bingley: you are much too kind. My writing talents are very small. In fact, not a jest, one of the med school profs told me he would approve my graduation only on the proviso that I solemnly swore never to write for publication. He subsequently became the most hightly regarded editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, which proves his qualification to judge the paper I wrote in my Junior year.
And it would really take a really top-notch pathologist to write such a book.
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#24217
07/25/2001 12:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
there was an article in the NYer some 3 or 4 months ago about autopsies-- saying how much they had fallen out of favor, and how vital they still are. when one of my elderly first cousins died some years ago, she left her body to Bellevue hospital-- for 2 reasons, 1) a frugal woman all her life, she appreciated that she would be buried one year later, at no cost to her family..and 2) when she was younger, she wished to go to medical school. she was discouraged, and shunted into nursing. she loved nursing, but she spoke gleefully of her plans.. she might not do it till she was dead-- but she was going to get into Bellevue's medical school!
I know WOW will understand that we all though it marvelous.. the irish have always been accuse of having happy songs of death, and sad songs of love. We had a memorial the week she died, and every was thrilled that Annie was off to medical school at the age of 89!
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#24218
07/25/2001 3:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
So if a pandemic was decimating large numbers of anthropomorphs and/or theriomorphs/zoomorps it would be called a......? Oh, lord...am I gonna get it now! 
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#24219
07/25/2001 3:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Actually, the importance of autopsies is quite evident in the books by author Kathy Reichs. She is a well-known forensic anthropologist who has written a couple of murder mystery novels. There was also a documentary on her work (the forensics not the writing) a few months ago.
Take a gander at Death Du Jour - not for the faint of heart as she is quite detailed in her descriptions. It is amazing what autopsies will reveal.
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