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#21037 03/04/01 09:19 PM
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Fathes Steve is right, there IS a term that describes the phonological process of consonants changing places within a word (due to whichever reason). It would apply to his example of "anominity". Unfortunately, as fate would have it, I have so completely forgotten it that no amount of cogitation has sufficed to bring it back.

I do, however, vaguely remember the example that illustrated the definition. It was about the Spanish word "murciélago", meaning "bat". Apparently, it evolved from a Latin word or expression that had two lexical components, "mur" (from "mus/muris", meaning "mouse") and something like "*caecalus/*caegalus" (from "caecus", meaning "blind"). Throughout the long period of of linguistic change, the "g" and the "l" got switched around, giving us the word "murciélago", which we use now.

I would absolutely love someone coming up with the name for this phenomenon. I shall keep on trying to remember anyway...




#21038 03/04/01 09:26 PM
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the Spanish word "murciélago", meaning "bat".

I find it rather strange that Spanish would use a more subtle feature of the bat to make it's name - "blind mouse" rather than "flying mouse". And if the word is very old, how would they have known that bats have poor vision? Just because they're nocturnal?


#21039 03/04/01 10:18 PM
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Jazzoctopus wonders why the Spanish would use a more subtle feature of the bat to make it's name - "blind mouse" rather than "flying mouse"

I think I may safely say that we are not really aware that we are talking about "blind" mice. Nowadays, "murciélago" doesn't give away its etymology so easily. For one thing, the consonantal change makes it more difficult to relate "ciélago" to our word for "blind", which is just "ciego". More importantly, though, our contemporary word for "mouse" has nothing to do with the Latin "mus/muris"!! Spanish mice are always "ratones".

As to how the ancient speakers of Latin knew that bats were blind or nearly, I seem to remember that there are some types that don't even have eyes?? That would be a definite sign. Also the fact that they were nocturnal, and possibly the way they fly around, almost crashing into objects and then deftly avoiding them at the last moment when they detect them.




#21040 03/05/01 03:27 AM
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>a term that describes the phonological process of consonants changing places within a word

I may not be thinking of exactly the same thing, but the grammatical term for the interchange of position between sounds or letters in a word is metathesis.


#21041 03/05/01 11:33 AM
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FWIW, the Portuguese word for "bat" is a cognate of the Spanish word: morcego.


#21042 03/05/01 01:38 PM
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Rapunzel said: How about ignorance?

Oh dear me, no. Don't you realise how judgmental that is? You could disturb their frail little psyches for ever by this indiscriminate use of speech. They might suck their thumbs, lose their self-respect, become mere shadows of their former selves if such implied criticism were allowed. No, indeedy - we must overcome such tendencies to claim that people might be different in their abilities.

We have already prevented schoolboys from playing games in which they actually score points (who tawdry and competitive), and we are now after your language. Anything you say that might suggest a differential in ability will be firmly censured (though of course we are all for free speech)...

Yours &c

The Procrustean English Society




#21043 03/05/01 01:49 PM
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Since your post about bats and their odd flying ways, I simply had to add this old chestnut: our word 'butterfly' comes, as far as I know, from the original 'flutterby', when the consonantal sounds were interchanged (through the process whose name even the mighty tsuwm has not yet authoritatively posted).

"Noralottapeepulnothat"

the sunshine "Harry Carter" warrior


#21044 03/05/01 02:44 PM
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My hubby had all he could do not to remark out loud during a meeting with the Big Bosses of the department store chain he used to work for, when the Chairman enthusiastically spoke of a new item they were stocking, which had a "beautiful placenta color."


#21045 03/05/01 03:14 PM
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Dear Sparteye: When the Boss was born, they should have thrown him away and kept the magenta placenta.


#21046 03/05/01 03:52 PM
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My first reaction. But on second thought, a quick look at the on-line thesaurus (under "inarticulate") yields some better suggestions, such as, tongue-tied, faltering, mumbling, maundering.


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