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it all depends on what you call value.
"LISP programmers know the value of everything and the cost of nothing." [Alan Perlis]
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Hi! Back from retreat. I've heard out the programs on the value of culture. Four of them nicely informative and the fifth (discussion) sooner deformative as discussions often tend to go.The evalution of the value of culture today amusing as discussions can be and nondecisive as dicussions mostly are. ' Should culture be a public responsability and be subsidized or rather not'. (money, money) After all I think I can stick to my first common sense reactions: 1. Culture is all that isn't nature. (belonging to mankind in spite of organised ants and clever crows. Culture is all that men has materialized through observation, thought and imagination). 2. Culture means a lot to me. (all the available things, art, science, technology, humanities, sports, gardening, care. High culture, low culture, just culture}. Mankind is not better than animalkind. But. Much though I admire the peaceful cow in the meadow and the striped coat and agility of the tiger and the cuteness of the kitty and the bunny I would not want to be one of them. Maybe, just maybe if I could come back as a bird.........or a dolphin.......then. Nah, I would miss facebook and all the good artists and nice people in my group. 
Last edited by BranShea; 01/12/13 11:52 PM.
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Welcome back, Branshe. Your thoughtful and direct answer to "What does Culture mean to you?" is appreciated. Thank you. But I'm curious: You said; "Mankind is not better than animalkind. But...I would not want to be one of them."That seems contradictory. And will you define "better"? And in what manner are snakes, bugs and microbes our equals too? Also you wrote: "... as amusing as discussions can be and nondecisive as discussions mostly are." Tell me, Branshe, what is the point of a discussion unless divergent opinions seek a mutual truth? 
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old hand
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Interesting points, jj.
a) Are "snakes, bugs, microbes" animals? If so, then mankind are animals, too, so ipso facto cannot be "better than animalkind." Therefore, it would not be contradictory, surely, to not wish you be other than what you are. If, on the other hand, they are NOT animals, then it isn't contradictory at ll.
2)Whilst I agree with you that "the point of a discussion [is for] divergent opinions [to] seek a mutual truth", it doesn't follow that that aim is always - or ever - achieved. And my own experience confirms Branny's thought that " discussions can be ... nondecisive " although I'm not sure that they are "mostly" so. But it often is that, at the end of a discussion, one person's "truth" is still as "divergent" from the other's as when the discussion started!
Last edited by Rhubarb Commando; 01/14/13 11:22 AM. Reason: typos & punctuation!
I'm immortal until proven otherwise
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Better is one of the words to express the relativity of values I admit; vague. I think my better in this case meant: better for the world at the point of creation where we are now (thinking big ) in fact we are a pretty destructive kind. From this point of vieuw I would call the ant and the herring better. Better to me means better for the whole, including our own interests. So I doubt if we are acting 'better' than animals.
Animals from huge to tiny are not our equals except that we are animals too and a pretty dominant species. For better or worse.
Rhuby answered the discussion part already. I called it 'mostly', since in spite of the zillions of discussions about everything around the world we do not seem to be able to make any progress on the big issues: peace, health, food, housing for all. Glad we have culture and nature to help us keep enjoying and admiring
and questioning life.
Edited by BranShea (3 seconds ago)
Last edited by BranShea; 01/14/13 05:57 PM.
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Some wise man once opined that we don't have free will but we do have free won't.
I am reading David Eagleman's Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain, in which he explains that the conscious mind is just along for the ride. The first chapter, BTW, is titled There's Someone In My Head, But It's Not Me. Uh, Faldage. Grandma was slow but she was old. Where the heck is your book report? 
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Some wise man once opined that we don't have free will but we do have free won't.
I am reading David Eagleman's Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain, in which he explains that the conscious mind is just along for the ride. The first chapter, BTW, is titled There's Someone In My Head, But It's Not Me. Uh, Faldage. Grandma was slow but she was old. Where the heck is your book report? This book was very good, but it didn't have any horses in it and I like horses. I can only give it a 2 + .32i on a scale of i to π.
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Kinda cute, Faldo. Pseudo-cryptic, but cute nontheless. You don't synopsisize well, do you, Faldage? Oh well, thanks for the fish.
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> synopsisize well There'll be fallout from that one
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