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Well.. thank you. That wasn't short but it was sweet. Thanks for the link. I'll try to fit the 222 minutes total in with my work and maybe get back at this in a week or so. 
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"... when you talk about Dylan, he thinks you’re talking about Dylan Thomas. Whoever HE was. The man ain’t got no culture.”
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It ain't me babe!
I gots many cultures (some of them treatable)
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Well.. thank you. That wasn't short but it was sweet. Thanks for the link. I'll try to fit the 222 minutes total in with my work and maybe get back at this in a week or so. You are of course welcome  I seem to remember it as half hour programmes, or was it 40 mins each, so it is susceptible to attack by stealth, pertickly for anyone suffering commutes of any kind. Total aside: good ole BBC, making this kind of high intent programming freely available, eh? [/cannuck]
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“Nature, it seems, is the popular name
for milliards and milliards and milliards
of particles playing their infinite game
of billiards and billiards and billiards.”
― Piet Hein
__________________________________________________
And presto-change-o we have Culture.
Boys, and Bran and Jackie, I do not relish the idea of me being the bitch in the back of the room screaming bloody murder, but no one here has yet indicated an understanding of the widely accepted mechanism behind the evolution of Culture and everything else, namely, determinism.
I would be less of a human being (and without balls) if I did not say so. So I do.
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Dear bitch in the backroom, I have to take my time. I close off each day with one section of that BBC program. It's real interesting though my words end of this week may be equal to what I started with. (one quote:"what distinguishes us from other primates is the fact that we developed a larger brain"; no one explains the why of and how that came to be. Must be something like the grain of sand in the oyster.( a beautiful accident) Nothing determined. I want to hear it out. Be seing you. 
Last edited by BranShea; 01/09/2013 11:15 PM.
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from the back of the room:
Objection, Your Honor! I know a little sometin' about billiards, and while it has a bit of determinism about it, I wouldn't go callin' it strictly deterministic (ever tried to predict reactions to English on the cue ball?) - not like, say, your computer is deterministic.
Oh,
Ya got trouble, my friend, right here,
I say, trouble right here in River City.
Why sure I'm a billiard player,
Certainly mighty proud I say
I'm always mighty proud to say it.
I consider that the hours I spend
With a cue in my hand are golden.
Help you cultivate horse sense
And a cool head and a keen eye.
Never take and try to give
An iron-clad leave to yourself
From a three-reail billiard shot?
But just as I say,
It takes judgement, brains, and maturity to score
In a balkline game,
I say that any boob kin take
And shove a ball in a pocket.
..and call it Culture.
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from the back of the room:
Objection, Your Honor! I know a little sometin' about billiards, and while it has a bit of determinism about it, I wouldn't go callin' it strictly deterministic (ever tried to predict reactions to English on the cue ball?) - not like, say, your computer is deterministic. Just because you can't predict what is going to happen doesn't mean it isn't deterministic. It just means that you are incapable of perceiving all the little factors that are doing the determining. And interesting you should contrast the determinicity of billiards to that of a computer. Anyone who has done any work with large computer programs will know how unpredictable something completely deterministic can be. That's why they have people debugging those programs. Even when they look like they're working nice and predictably they send out beta versions to crowd-source the bug hunting.
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but it's the programmer's and their programs that are unpredictable, not the computers themselves - they can only (deterministically) do what they're told.
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And the pool balls do what they're told. You just can't account for all the little irregularities.
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I mentioned the use of English, complicating billiards. (Brits call this 'side'.) Side English complicates the game a lot, and makes many shots possible which would not be possible otherwise. The main effect of side English is the angle that the cue ball (and to a lesser extent, other balls) bounces off the rail. The second most important effect of side English is squirt; the cue ball does not go straight in the direction that the cue is pointing, it squirts off to the side a little. Left English makes the ball squirt to the right. The greater the side English, the greater the squirt. And squirt causes you to miss shots, and is the main reason that the pros tell you not to use side English unless you have a good reason. The third most important effect of side English is Throw, which is the effect that cue ball spin has on object balls. There is also accidental side English, caused by a bad stroke. And other balls gain side English, mainly by banking off rails (but also because of throw). The point being, this isn't just deterministic pool ball physics: it's very much about having a 'feel' for the game.
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Culture is roughly anything we do and the monkeys don’t – Lord Raglan
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impeccable judgement, as always padre! oh, is that a Bugatti at the altar rail?
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I just love these arguments about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. There are just so many assumptions!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Man is a masterpiece of creation if for no other reason than, all the weight of evidence for determinism notwithstanding, he believes he has free will.
_____________________________________Georg C. Lichtenberg 1778
I call foul. Maverick, you bring a ringer to a honest game?
No matter; Father Steve, I think that the posters here are Determinists but don't know it. And they resent the inclusion of "their" words into the sausage mix that is Culture. Humph! Well, below are five statements. Agreeing with them makes you a Determinist and as a Determinist you will understand Culture.
Go...
1) Our brains are hard wired to operate in a cause and effect Universe.
2)Cause and effect requires Time to be progressive in order to function.
3) Words and thoughts are physical manifestations.
4) Atomic interactions are mechanical and determinate.
5) There is no number five statement.
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Some wise man once opined that we don't have free will but we do have free won't.
I am reading David Eagleman's Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain, in which he explains that the conscious mind is just along for the ride. The first chapter, BTW, is titled There's Someone In My Head, But It's Not Me.
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The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Is the book any good, Fong? Short tip for reading list welcomed.
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Yeah,Faldage, please do give a report. In the eighties I read a book entitled Your Little Man Inside (or something like that) and I have monitored his work ever since. Our relationship is ongoing but strange. 
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I'm loving it. Ever heard of the Zen-Nippon Chick Sexing School?
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There's a discussion going on about it on my Facebook page.
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> my Facebook page
mommy, the scary man swearded at me :~
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mav, I was just wishing you were on F-book: I wanted you to see a poster explaining Southern (U.S.) talk.
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Dag nab it, I am lucky the above post looks okay: my relatively new laptop posted it without me consciously doing anything. I hope I will eventually learn not to let any part of my hands touch anywhere I'm not aware of. This thing is constantly doing things I don't expect it to.
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Shh! The Faldage is talking to his Facebook friends. 
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Dag nab it, I am lucky the above post looks okay: my relatively new laptop posted it without me consciously doing anything. I hope I will eventually learn not to let any part of my hands touch anywhere I'm not aware of. This thing is constantly doing things I don't expect it to. Use a USB mouse off your old computer and turn off the touchpad, which is usually something like Fn 8. Puts you back in control!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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[shakes head in pity for the poor folks who don't understand the value of Facebook] [shrugs and goes on with life]
Last edited by Faldage; 01/12/2013 1:09 PM.
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The people who paid top whack for Facebook shares in the float certainly had no idea of its lack of value ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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[shakes head in pity for the poor folks who don't understand the value of Facebook]
I notice the same sort of reaction and vehemence towards Facebook that earlier was leveled at Wikipedia, and before that at the Web itself. (It's hard to believe I've been using the web just shy of 19 years.) Before that it was ftp sites, bulletin boards, and in the beginning e-mail. I let the attentive reader extrapolate on her own about TV, radio, horseless carriages, and photography.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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The people who paid top whack for Facebook shares in the float certainly had no idea of its lack of value ... I guess it all depends on what you call value.
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it all depends on what you call value.
"LISP programmers know the value of everything and the cost of nothing." [Alan Perlis]
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Hi! Back from retreat. I've heard out the programs on the value of culture. Four of them nicely informative and the fifth (discussion) sooner deformative as discussions often tend to go.The evalution of the value of culture today amusing as discussions can be and nondecisive as dicussions mostly are. ' Should culture be a public responsability and be subsidized or rather not'. (money, money) After all I think I can stick to my first common sense reactions: 1. Culture is all that isn't nature. (belonging to mankind in spite of organised ants and clever crows. Culture is all that men has materialized through observation, thought and imagination). 2. Culture means a lot to me. (all the available things, art, science, technology, humanities, sports, gardening, care. High culture, low culture, just culture}. Mankind is not better than animalkind. But. Much though I admire the peaceful cow in the meadow and the striped coat and agility of the tiger and the cuteness of the kitty and the bunny I would not want to be one of them. Maybe, just maybe if I could come back as a bird.........or a dolphin.......then. Nah, I would miss facebook and all the good artists and nice people in my group. 
Last edited by BranShea; 01/12/2013 11:52 PM.
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Welcome back, Branshe. Your thoughtful and direct answer to "What does Culture mean to you?" is appreciated. Thank you. But I'm curious: You said; "Mankind is not better than animalkind. But...I would not want to be one of them."That seems contradictory. And will you define "better"? And in what manner are snakes, bugs and microbes our equals too? Also you wrote: "... as amusing as discussions can be and nondecisive as discussions mostly are." Tell me, Branshe, what is the point of a discussion unless divergent opinions seek a mutual truth?
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Interesting points, jj.
a) Are "snakes, bugs, microbes" animals? If so, then mankind are animals, too, so ipso facto cannot be "better than animalkind." Therefore, it would not be contradictory, surely, to not wish you be other than what you are. If, on the other hand, they are NOT animals, then it isn't contradictory at ll.
2)Whilst I agree with you that "the point of a discussion [is for] divergent opinions [to] seek a mutual truth", it doesn't follow that that aim is always - or ever - achieved. And my own experience confirms Branny's thought that " discussions can be ... nondecisive " although I'm not sure that they are "mostly" so. But it often is that, at the end of a discussion, one person's "truth" is still as "divergent" from the other's as when the discussion started!
Last edited by Rhubarb Commando; 01/14/2013 11:22 AM. Reason: typos & punctuation!
I'm immortal until proven otherwise
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Better is one of the words to express the relativity of values I admit; vague. I think my better in this case meant: better for the world at the point of creation where we are now (thinking big ) in fact we are a pretty destructive kind. From this point of vieuw I would call the ant and the herring better. Better to me means better for the whole, including our own interests. So I doubt if we are acting 'better' than animals.
Animals from huge to tiny are not our equals except that we are animals too and a pretty dominant species. For better or worse.
Rhuby answered the discussion part already. I called it 'mostly', since in spite of the zillions of discussions about everything around the world we do not seem to be able to make any progress on the big issues: peace, health, food, housing for all. Glad we have culture and nature to help us keep enjoying and admiring
and questioning life.
Edited by BranShea (3 seconds ago)
Last edited by BranShea; 01/14/2013 5:57 PM.
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Some wise man once opined that we don't have free will but we do have free won't.
I am reading David Eagleman's Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain, in which he explains that the conscious mind is just along for the ride. The first chapter, BTW, is titled There's Someone In My Head, But It's Not Me. Uh, Faldage. Grandma was slow but she was old. Where the heck is your book report?
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Some wise man once opined that we don't have free will but we do have free won't.
I am reading David Eagleman's Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain, in which he explains that the conscious mind is just along for the ride. The first chapter, BTW, is titled There's Someone In My Head, But It's Not Me. Uh, Faldage. Grandma was slow but she was old. Where the heck is your book report? This book was very good, but it didn't have any horses in it and I like horses. I can only give it a 2 + .32i on a scale of i to π.
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Kinda cute, Faldo. Pseudo-cryptic, but cute nontheless. You don't synopsisize well, do you, Faldage? Oh well, thanks for the fish.
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> synopsisize well There'll be fallout from that one
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