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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 1 of 2 1 2 I toiled under / in the scorching sun. #208196 12/01/12 07:39 PM Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 41 L Lionel Koh OP newbie OP Lionel Koh newbie L Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 41 I toiled under / in the scorching sun, carrying heavy golf bags. Should 'under' or 'in' be used? Thanks. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. Lionel Koh #208198 12/01/12 10:53 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Either is OK. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. Lionel Koh #208212 12/05/12 10:42 AM Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague "At noon, farmers are weeding under the scorching sun" Their sweat dripping down onto the ground. Each and every grain of rice in your bowl is the fruit of the toiling farmers." Tang-Dynasty Poet Li Shen. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. BranShea #208241 12/06/12 11:49 PM Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK Rhubarb Commando old hand Rhubarb Commando old hand Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK Lord Macaulay, in his epic poem, Virginia, favours "under." "Here, in this very Forum, under the noonday sun, In the sight of all the people, the bloody deed was done." But Noel Coward - also a superb crafter of the English language - favours, "in." "Mad dogs and Englishmen Go out in the noonday sun." That your pick, as the site foreman said to the confused Irishman, as he offered him the choice of two shovels. I'm immortal until proven otherwise Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. Rhubarb Commando #208262 12/08/12 09:46 PM Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague Agree, they both are good shovels. Somehow I associate 'under' sooner with tossing and toiling and solemn things; 'in' with outdoor leisure s.a. sunbathing. Just down to earth things which bring me back to your shovels. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. BranShea #208268 12/09/12 11:01 PM Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi J jenny jenny veteran jenny jenny veteran J Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi Good point, Branshe. What imprecise speakers like Noel Coward mean when they say "in the sun" is "into the sun" with the "to" implied. This is nonsense unless they include the rays and effects of sun as parts of its corporeal body. Everyone can walk beneath the real sun. No one I know can walk into the sun. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. jenny jenny #208271 12/09/12 11:46 PM Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK Rhubarb Commando old hand Rhubarb Commando old hand Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK I don't think that Coward was implying "into" (quite apart ffrom the fact that he needed a word that scanned!) His use is similar to that of Dorothy Slade's words (to Julian Reynolds tune) in Salad Days, "I sit in the Sun/ and one by one/I collect my thoughts/ And i think them over;" Slade could well have used "under" in this context, but scansion, again, takes precedence. However, the two words are not inevitably interchangeable: if one talks of, "all beasts ubder the sun ..." one could not use "in". Nor could you really use "under" in the phrase in, "I am sweltering in the sun's direct rays." I'm immortal until proven otherwise Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. Rhubarb Commando #208276 12/10/12 01:29 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Rhuby says well. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. Faldage #208279 12/10/12 05:08 AM Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi J jenny jenny veteran jenny jenny veteran J Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi Originally Posted By: Faldage Rhuby says well. Yes, Faldage. And therein lies the conflict. Did Rhuby say "well" or is it what Rhuby has said that is well? "In the sun" serves poetry and street speak well but would not be acceptable if used in a science paper unless one was actually going into the sun. But we quibble. Of course we quibble. Everyone here has spoken millions and millions of words so we are all language experts. Aren't you? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. jenny jenny #208285 12/10/12 11:19 AM Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague Yet Rhuby says well. Depending on the context interchangeable or not. The examples are fine. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Page 1 of 2 1 2 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. 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