Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#197217 02/10/11 01:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
I want to know what is the subject of the sentence "A trail of ants marched across the table". Is "trail" the subject or "a trail of ants". Isn't "of ants" an adjectival prepositional phrase? So how can it be the subject? OTOH a trail marching sounds wrong and incomplete. What marched? A trail marched - sounds incomplete. Yet can a prep phrase be a part of a noun phrase? Thanks for your help.

Avy #197218 02/10/11 01:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
perhaps it could be thought of as just sort of wrong; or, 'a trail of ants' could be a collective noun (like a pride of lions or an exaltation of larks : )

tsuwm #197219 02/10/11 02:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Originally Posted By: tsuwm
or, 'a trail of ants' could be a collective noun
yeah okay.
Originally Posted By: tsuwm
an exaltation of larks : )
Heh!

Avy #197225 02/10/11 12:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Which sounds better to you?

A) A trail of ants is marching across the table.

or

2) A trail of ants are marching across the table.

Not to throw any confusion into the mix.

Faldage #197229 02/10/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 677
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 677
The second one faldage, I always assume that if it is plural then "are" is the right use, but "is" would be correct for singular, but if it is the collective being used (herd of lions) I would say
the herd is moving this way
not
the herd are moving this way
But
The herds are moving this way
Would be the correct form as it is plural herds
I might be wrong though... grin


----The next sentence is true. The previous sentence is false----
Faldage #197230 02/10/11 01:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
Avy Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
A trial of ants is marching across... Is gramatically correct, right?... WHICH means that a trail is the subject and of ants the prep phrase; WHICH means... I forget what it is I am arguing here. Too tired. G night. Gesnorgenplatz.

Avy #197232 02/10/11 02:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
A trial of ants is marching across... Is gramatically correct, right?

Well, it depends what you mean by subject, right. Syntactically, the noun phrase, the trail of ants, is the subject of the sentence. Subject verb concord would be based on the head noun phrase the trail. How you handle the verb, singular versus plural, does have something to do with how you interpret the whole NP, the trail of ants. I would treat a flock of sheep as plural, but a herd of bison as singular: e.g., "A flock of sheep were cropping my lawn", but "a herd of bison was blocking the road".


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
zmjezhd #197233 02/10/11 02:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
these sorts of discussion is/are prezactly why I could never abide sentence diaphragm[m]ing.

tsuwm #197234 02/10/11 03:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
these sorts of discussion is/are prezactly why I could never abide sentence diaphragm[m]ing.

Back in the day, I really enjoyed sentence diagramming, especially sentences in the wild, rather than the tawdry little sample sentences in our grammars and workbooks. I first learned the traditional, Reed-Kellogg system (link), but then later as an undergraduate was exposes to the various flavors of directed acyclical graphs of generative grammar (link) schools of linguistic theory.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
zmjezhd #197237 02/10/11 04:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,931
Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,931
Likes: 3
I never could abide diagramming either, tho' my teachers
would tell me I was very good at it. I would cringe
and want to run screaming from the room when the topic
was announced by the teacher.


----please, draw me a sheep----
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,580
Members9,187
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Karin, JeffMackwood, artguitar, Jim_W, Rdbuffalo
9,187 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 332 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,713
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,931
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5