|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132
member
|
member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132 |
I think it has much to do with Two different sounds to make the one complete sound. Mar and ch. Still just 1 vowel sound. Same with "strengths"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164
member
|
|
OP
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 164 |
So in other words, it is, within the English lexicon, actually the "ar " sound in March that is deemed the syllabic aspect. Thus rendering the two distinct sounds as just consonates and dialect?
The definition of "syllable" is tricky, but in English a syllable consists of a vowel sound and any surrounding consonants. "March" contains 1 vowel sound, so it has 1 syllable. True, but it is one word which really makes it difficult when dealing with poetic meter. Though as can be seen by tsuwm's post, not impossible. there ain't no schwas in March (to my ear), even if you march to the beat of a different drum.
You can lead a horse to water
But u can't make him drink,
U can lead a human by the nose
But you can't make him think
I may be lost sometimes
But i don't follow anyone
I'll always march to the beat
The beat of a different drum
-Lower Class Brats
Rev. Alimae
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
So, how many syllables is strengths?
I'd say one. Though not all syllables are the same length, especially in languages where vocalic phonemes can differ by length (as in Sanskrit, Latin, Classical Greek, German, etc.). There's a difference between syllables and morae.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
What a horrible time for this interesting topic to have come up! I do not have the time or leisure for this, but I cannot resist.
This is how I parse tsu-s's rhyme below:
'You can 'lead a 'horse to 'water 8
But u 'can't 'make him 'drink, 6
'U can 'lead a 'human 'by the 'nose 9
But you 'can't 'make him 'think 6
I 'may be 'lost some'times 5
But 'i don't 'follow 'any'one 8
I'll 'always 'march 'to the 'beat 7
The 'beat of a 'different 'drum 8
-Lower Class Brats
There does not seem consistency in the beat, but the rhyme still works for me because of I think the rhyming, but mostly because it is consistently iambic throughout, except for the last two lines - was that what you meant by march being problematic? But I think the inconsistency in rhythm of the last two lines works. They emulate the rat a tat. I love the dactyl of the last line.
In my op, the worst word meter wise is 'every' - HOG!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956 |
syllables and morae.
Yeah, thats what I was trying to get at I didn't know the technical term.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
Is morae a syllable differentiated by its length? Eastern poetry has that. I am still struggling to learn it. Can't be learnt on line. What is a strength?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
In my op, the worst word meter wise is 'every' Why? It's just two syllables, ev and ree.  I think I have seen it as ev'ry, to denote this.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 724 |
I thought it is denoted as ev'ry to indicate the middle schwa has been dropped. In normal speech also I pronounce it with a slight schwa in the middle. However, I just looked it up on google, and it says most dictionaries list it as two syllables. So I don't know. I have always thought it to be three - since it has 3 vowels.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Is morae a syllable differentiated by its length? Eastern poetry has that. I am still struggling to learn it. Can't be learnt on line.You can start at Wikipedia ( link). A mora ... a unit of sound used in phonology that determines syllable weight (which in turn determines stress or timing) in some languages. As with many technical linguistics terms, the exact definition of mora varies. Perhaps the most succinct working definition was provided by the American linguist James D. McCawley in 1968: a mora is “Something of which a long syllable consists of two and a short syllable consists of one.” The term comes from the Latin word for “linger, delay”, which was also used to translate the Greek word chronos (time) in its metrical sense. I think Faldo meant the word strengths.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The Japanese poetic form haiku is said, in English, to have three lines of five, seven, and five syllables, respectively. Thinking of these as we think of syllables can lead to some very clunky poetry. The Japanese are actually counting morae. Where the word haiku is thought of as having two syllables in English it has three morae in Japanese, ha i ku. A mora in Japanese is a V, a CV, or the phoneme /n/, although the /n/ can be the C in a CV combination.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,671
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
|
