#19513
02/21/2001 8:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427 |
Bingley wrote: The students at your school may be better informed than the average, but that doesn't make them any more intelligent than people who haven't had the same quality of instructionAnd conversely, students being highly intelligent does not guarantee they will be very educated or well informed. They may be intelligent but completely demotivated to study and learn, or they may be keen but getting a low standard of education. What is more, in my experience, a lower standard of education often results in a lack of motivation to be educated. I am talking generally here, and certainly NOT picking on Jazz.  Wey-hey! I'm a newbie! How about that? 
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#19514
02/21/2001 1:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the ignorance in the US about basic geography is appalling-- when my daughter was in HS, she got a promotion at a temp job because it became evident to the manager that she knew the 50 states. She was working at a mailing house, and had to sort (outgoing) mail for postage. Sometimes, there would be domestic mail in the batches -- usually just missing a zip code. many of the workers had been "long term" temps, but still were unable to reliably recognize domestic from overseas addresses.
For myself, i "knew" New Zealand long before i knew Australia-- My family loved lamb-- and NZ frozen legs of lamb came with a "map" outlining the shape.. so I could find NZ on the globe as soon as i got to school. Idaho was one of the first states i knew as child too, from the bags of potatoes!
We had a puzzle map of the US, and i learned geography of US at a young age-- and still have childhood images of the states.. Virginia looks like a sleeping camel in my minds eye to this day!
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#19515
02/21/2001 2:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Many of us have good reason to be unhappy with the schools. But we must remember how much new material has been added.I had things in highschool my father had in college. My kids had a bit of calculus in highschool, which I never heard of until I got into college. Add the new math, etc.,etc.A lot of new garbage crowded out some of the old solid foundation material.
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#19516
02/21/2001 4:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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To clarify this discussion, there is a difference between trademark, trade name, and copyright. Based on US law, generally, (1) A trademark is a word, phrase or logo used to distinguish a manufacturer's or seller's product from others. It had its origin as a guarantee of genuineness (such as Paul Revere's mark on his silver works). To receive trademark protection under US federal law, a mark must (a) be distinctive rather than merely descriptive, (b) be affixed to the product actually sold in the marketplace, and (c) be registered in the Patent Office. The need for distinctiveness rather than description, coupled with a marketing goal of attracting attention and staying in the consumer's memory, is what prompts the odd spellings. Trademark is related to service mark, used to distinguish the services of a certain provider. (2) A trade name is a name, style or symbol used to distinguish a company or business rather than a product or service. It establishes and preserves the company's reputation and goodwill. General Electric is a trade name. (3) Copyright is a property right in an original work of authorship, including literary, musical and artistic work, fixed in a tangible medium of expression. It entitles the owner of the exclusive rights to the work, including to the profits generated by the work. The ideas underlying copyrighted works cannot themselves be copyrighted, so a person who develops a recipe for creme brulee can preclude others from selling that recipe, but cannot stop them from selling another recipe for creme brulee. As you've noted in another thread, under US federal law, copyright is subject to certain "fair use" exceptions, including brief quotation for the purpose of critique. ___________ I believe that the Sinclair dinosaur was adopted in acknowledgment of the origins of fossil fuels. ________ 3M Company is a good example of a trade name gone awry. Originally the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company, the corporation was formed by a group of investors in a smallish town in Minnesota to purchase and exploit a deposit of a mineral (I forget which one) discovered nearby. The investors planned to sell the mineral for a certain industrial use, but discovered that the mineral was of inferior quality and couldn't be used for that purpose. Left with a bunch of rocks, they explored alternate uses and started making sandpaper with it. That lead to BIG advances by the company in the production of papers and glues, including the invention of masking tape and cellophane tape. That's why a mining company is a leader in stationary supplies and now calls itself 3M. 3M brought us Scotch tape, another product with a trademark so successful that it nearly lost its purpose as a trademark. -- (c) 2001
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#19517
02/21/2001 4:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 771
old hand
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old hand
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Posts: 771 |
> I believe that the Sinclair dinosaur was adopted in acknowledgment of the origins of fossil fuels.What morbid ad agent dreamed that one up? Although I suppose putting that cow on bottles of Elmer's glue is no better...
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#19518
02/21/2001 6:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Virginia looks like a sleeping camel
Given the crop Ole Virginny's famed for, should not that be "a sleeping Camel®"? [couldn't-help-myself emoticon]
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#19519
02/21/2001 6:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
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It's different-- Elmers (and most "white glues") are made from whey-- a waste product of cheese making--
Milk is seperated into "curds and whey" and the curds become cheese. Whey (in the quanties that were being prduced) was a "toxic waste" it killed fish, it smelled bad, ect.. But someone noticed, it dried "sticky" and it glued paper to a surface--
So Elsie survives "white glue" now as for a mucilage type glues...
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#19520
02/21/2001 7:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
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I have to confess with shame that at least 40 percent of my fellow citizens could not tell you where Manitoba or Alberta are.One of our favourite shows is this Canadian comedy/current events show called "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" (a joke on the CBC's 22-minute evening newshour). In it, one of the hosts, Rick Mercer, will periodically have a segment called "Talking to Americans". He goes down to some southern US state (or other places, he went to Harvard once) and poses a garbage question to people, to see what kind of dumb things they say which show their ignorance of Canada (and the world). For example "Did you know that President Clinton approved air attacks on Saskatchewan this week? What do you think of that?" Then people will answer with things like "Yeah, we believe that we should do what it takes to maintain American sovereignty" or "If that's what's necessary to keep peace in the world then I support it 100%". Another good one was "Did you know that Canada recently celebrated the coronation of their new king Svend and queen Luba" (first names of a member of parliament and a TV personality) (by the way, we don't have a king and queen!). "Would you like to congratulate Canada?" And they get people on tape saying "Congratulations Canada on the coronation of your new king and queen" and other stuff. The best (or worst) part of it is that he talks to American politicians - the governor of Arkansas comes to mind - and gets them on camera saying these things. I am not kidding. He does it all with a straight face and it is too funny (and kind of embarrassing) to watch. So, our big secret is out. Of course, not every American falls into this group and they obviously don't show us the footage of when Rick talks to the informed ones. However, lots of Americans don't know anything about Canada so it makes great fodder for our comedians. And obviously that doesn't include the members of this board, who not only know a lot about the world but can admit when they don't know something, and then look it up! (I will admit to looking up where the heck Vermont was, exactly, a couple of weeks ago. New England is all a blur to someone from Western Canada!)
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#19521
02/21/2001 7:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Bean, I think it would be worth my while to get a satellite dish just to be able to watch "Talking to Americans."  Thanks for telling us about that program(me). Some of us can poke fun at ourselves, though: Late-night variety show host Jay Leno (the Tonight Show? Or is that Letterman? doesn't matter for now) often steps out to do a vox pops, similar to your Mercer, with the proverbial man on the street. Again, the informed don't make good footage so they aren't used, of course, but what we do get to see is hilarious in its sadness. [ schadenfreude emoticon]
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#19522
02/21/2001 7:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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There's a "story" going the rounds that opines: If the now-USA had been settled from the west, instead of the east, New England would be designated a National Wilderness Area! It was a hard scrabble life for the early settlers! Years ago during a stint as a manager for an American Automobile Association office, I was often amused by the plans of visitors from other countries or even from the South or Western US ! They had planned three days to "see" New England including the City of Boston, Cape Cod, the Berkshires for the Boston Symphony Music Festival at Tanglewood in Lenox, Mass. Plus Vermont for maple syrup and Maine for lobsters. They were amazed when I got out the big New England map an started explaining to them about driving times! Inevitably they'd comment "But it looks so small on the maps! It takes a good three days just to hit the (limited) highlights in Boston! That's why, when travelling, I stop at the local AAA offices! wow
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#19523
02/21/2001 7:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
Well, Bean, This Hour Has 22 Minutes will continue to have fodder for at least the next four years. I trust that Mr Mercer has already booked a flight to the District of Columbia, for another display of abomniable ignorance. Please be sure to tell your friends that we aren't all like that! Thanks.
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#19524
02/21/2001 8:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I wonder what answers we would get if Canadians were asked about USA ? That's not meant as a zinger, but aside from the folk in cities along the Cannada-US border, friends who have visited "inland" Canada have been surprised by misinformation and misplacing concerning US cities and states!
Meanwhile, do they sell tapes of the 22 Minute Hour shows? Have they a web site? I'd love to see a sampling.
wow
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#19525
02/21/2001 8:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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And one that maybe isn't apocryphal:
The family name was Toyoda* but a numerologist convinced them the car would sell better as Toyota.
*Even Ænigma prefers Toyota.
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#19526
02/21/2001 8:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Verizon's a good one. I parsed it as Vertical Horizon. I later got the real word but Vertical Horizon won't let it in.
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#19527
02/21/2001 8:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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When I went to Japan, one of the funniest (and I don't speak japanese) shows i saw was a "pronounciation" game show.
Roving cameras asked tourist to "pronounce" a common phrase. the phrase was writen in "western/roman" alphabet, and no guide was given. the contestants (celebraties) had to guess what was being said--
The text was something one the order of "give me liberty or give me death" "We are not amused" -- classical/cliches type phrases. They have 5 or 6 tourist-- and start with the worst-- It could be very un PC-- but it was funny to watch and even i could "hear" the differences between the worst pronounced phrases and the best--
if you ever watched "archie bunker" hear him use the very old, very low class "turlet" for toilet- oh what pronounciation!..Image how such a pronounciation would sound to someone from an other country! Some "english films" and BBC shows-- featuring speakers for the "North" (Yorkshire or Northumbria) have been broadcast in US with sub-titles. and there are so many simple words that change pronounciation just in US.water or roof, and then from england to US- there is a change of vocabulary as well as pronounciation.
and I'm with Wow-- for the most part, Jay Leno is on too late for me to watch and still get to work on time-- but when they set a promo for "jay walking" as the segment is called-- i always stay up. Questions include "how many states in USA? How many planets? During the olympics-- What language is spoken in Austalia? (one answer "austrian") During the elections-- photo's of candidates-- and question "who is this?" the answers Jay gets are scary!
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#19528
02/21/2001 8:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
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I have a small amount of sympathy for people from the USA when it comes to world "trivia". Whilst it is hugely amusing to see people from the USA given maps of Europe and asked to put a pin on major cities like Paris, Madrid and Rome, our own knowledge of the capitals of US states, South American countries and some of those little places in the Caribbean is distinctly hazy.
Schools (here anyway) decided years ago that geography was more about knowing about land masses, rock formations and politics rather than knowing answers to pub quizzes. It gets left to the more trivia-minded students to research those "facts at your fingertips" that we all prize so highly.
The US is a huge country and very few ordinary working people get to travel the world so that they have a specific reason to learn about other countries. I was told that if you live in Florida, an event in California is treated like world news, it is so far away. I think of this as "big country syndrome". There is so much news from war zones, that there are few column inches left to cover the news from the rest of the world. I noticed on this morning's news that two of the top three news items here were about the US (item one was the brouhaha following Clinton's activities during his last days in office). It is hard to imagine a news story from, say New Zealand, making into the top three headlines in the US. The converse is much more likely.
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#19529
02/21/2001 9:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
As the story would have it the name Exxon® was the result of an exhaustive computer program and search. Rejected names included Enco® which was a previously used name of Standard Oil® but was found to mean broken car in Japanese (shades of Nova®). Common rumor had it that Exxon was a combination of Esso and Nixon.
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#19530
02/22/2001 12:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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Although I suppose putting that cow on bottles of Elmer's glue is no better...Actually, FB, if you were to look at the other end of Elmer, you'd discover that HE wasn't a cow, but a bull. The same people who gave us Elsie, the Borden's cow, gave her a boyfriend, Elmer! 
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#19531
02/22/2001 12:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Geoff: and which bovine's glandular productions are contained in the glue?
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#19532
02/22/2001 8:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
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We still have Esso (and probably) Mobil petrol stations. I hadn't realised that ExxonMobil was the parent company.
Did they run the "Put a tiger in your tank" campaign, or the "Esso sign means happy motoring" in other parts of the world. The name Esso seems to be linked with mainly positive images here, whereas we only ever hear the world Exxon linked to Valdez [wince], so I don't suppose that they are keen to change the name.
Ferries operating the Channel suddenly became "P&O Ferries" after the parent company, after the "Herald of Free Enterprise", a "Townsend Thoresen" ferry went down with its bow doors open, losing many lives.
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#19533
02/22/2001 12:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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The family name was Toyoda* but a numerologist convinced them the car would sell better as Toyota.Yes, indeed, but then it's a transliteration, if that's the right term, from Japanese characters, so many a westerner might never know the difference. By the way, do you know what they built before getting into building automobiles? You'll be in stitches when you find out!
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#19534
02/22/2001 12:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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Did they run the "Put a tiger in your tank" campaign... in other parts of the world.Of course, they did, but here in the States, it violated the Endangered Species Act, and, besides, cat fur is hell on fuel injectors. 
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#19535
02/22/2001 1:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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wow wrote: I wonder what answers we would get if Canadians were asked about USA ? That's not meant as a zinger, but aside from the folk in cities along the Cannada-US border, friends who have visited "inland" Canada have been surprised by misinformation and misplacing concerning US cities and states! Meanwhile, do they sell tapes of the 22 Minute Hour shows? Have they a web site? I'd love to see a sampling.What I feel is the difference is not so much knowing WHERE a city/state is, but having heard of it at all. If you were to tell a Canadian that Canada is bombing Vermont (to use a reverse example), we would know that you were kidding. We might not know just where Vermont (or Oregon or Nevada or Tucson or Little Rock) is exactly, but we know they are in the US somewhere. And that we wouldn't likely be bombing them! And EVERYONE in Canada knows that the US has a president, not a prime minister or a king or queen. (Even though some may not be concerned enough to know WHO exactly the president is!) You have to remember that we get half our TV channels and most of our sitcoms from you guys, so all the passing references to cities, states, people, become familiar to us. But since our Canadian-made shows are few and far between, and most probably don't get exported to the US (except some notable ones like Degrassi Junior High/Degrassi High, You Can't do That on TV), the passing references to Canadian landmarks and government are never heard by Americans. I think, in the end, some people, Canadians, Americans, and otherwide, just don't care much about geography. One thing that ANNOYS me is that all our friends back in Winnipeg think we can so easily come back and visit them. Well, it costs between $700-$1000 round trip by plane from St. John's to Winnipeg for one person. Or we could drive 4500 km (nearly 3000 miles), including a 14-hour ferry ride, and take almost a week to get home to visit! A quick hello-goodbye and we'd be on our way back again. Guess what - on a student's pathetic salary, with my husband only working part-time because that's all there is, it isn't going to happen!  As for a web site, try http://www.22minutes.com. Looks like you can buy tapes, and at $12.95 Canadian ($0.10 US, ha ha, just a little bitter about our weak dollar) they would be a great deal! They do have streaming video of the now-infamous rant about the leader of our right-wing party, Stockwell Day, and the move to have him change his name to Doris by a "citizen's initiative". You have to see it to get it. Anyway, for a good laugh you (plural you) may want to have a look!
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#19536
02/22/2001 6:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,467 |
>so they decided to change the name and came up with Exxon.
Actually,I don't think it was Esso at that point. By changing the name to Exxon they proved that a big oil company did not have to be Humble.
TEd
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#19537
02/22/2001 7:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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was a totally made-up word that a panel of linguists certified as having no meaning in any major language. Or so goes the conventional wisdom.
TEd
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