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what about crucible?
Its etymology is uncertain. It's a Medieval Latin word, crucibulum or crucibolum 'a night-lamp; later a pot for melting metal in'.
[Sorry, FF, I did not read your reply until doing my own.]
Last edited by zmjezhd; 08/06/10 01:12 PM.
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Back in that time, I presume that a night lamp would either have been a candle or an oil lamp, perhaps something like these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_lampor these http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/lampcat/lampcat1.shtmlHere's a nice blow up of how this works: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diya.jpg There's also a kind of fungus called crucibulum that has a pretty clear resemblance to these lamps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrucibulumThere's a kind of gastropod called crucibulum: http://www.gastropods.com/0/Shell_430.shtmlSee the resemblance there. The resemblance of the modern crucible, of the fungal crucibulum, and of the animal crucibulum is obvious - it's just that leap back from lamp to cross seems flimsy to me - unless we think of the metaphorical connection of "great trial." In this sense the crucible was the part where the metal collected, after it was extracted from (melted out of) the ore. This is a kind of purification. Maybe there's some connection with Jesus on the cross, leaving the scoria of his human form to become fully a god. The problem with this hypothetical connection is that use of crucible as a melting pot for metals came after and was derived from its use as a lamp - and it's the lamp that bears less resemblance to a cross. OTOH, there's a different potential metaphor there in John 8:12 "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life." Maybe makes more sense, but it's still flimsy. Can't help thinking that maybe there's some lost Latin word that has coincidentally similar spelling.
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John 8:12 is probably the connection, if there is one. It doesn't even seem flimsy to me. Look for a link between "light" and "cross" in Latin, and it pretty much jumps out at you.
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John 8:12 is probably the connection, if there is one. It doesn't even seem flimsy to me. I dunno. When you have a perfectly good MHG word Ego sum lux mundi sounds pretty iffy to me.
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I see your point. When was the MHG in use? And for us laymen, whence came MHG?
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When was the MHG in use?
Middle High German covers the years 1050 to 1350 CE.
And for us laymen, whence came MHG?
MHG came from OHG (Old High German) which in turn is a West Germanic language (along with English, Dutch, etc.). East Germanic (Gothic) and North Germanic (Danish, Icelandic, Faroese, etc.) come from a hypothetically (reconstructed) Proto-Germanic, which in turn came from Proto-Indo-European.
I haven't quite caught the connection of crucible with ego sum lux mundi (Koine Greek ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου· / egŏ eimi to phŏs tou kosmou). The composition of the Fourth Gospel is usually thought to be around 100 CE and the word crucible comes from the Middle Ages, perhaps a thousand years later. Are you saying that crux (Greek σταυρός stauros) as an instrument of capital punishment and a symbol of Christianity inspired the word crucible?
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With the crux as the symbol of He who is believed to be the Light of the world, it may not matter that "crucible," derived from a lamp, has roots other than Latin. To the just-plain-folks of the day (as ignorant as I of the etymology of "crucible,") a "little cross" providing light seems to me a straightforward link.
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To the just-plain-folks of the day (as ignorant as I of the etymology of "crucible,") a "little cross" providing light seems to me a straightforward link.Fair enough. As a fellow seeker after knowledge, I'm sure we can have a fine discussion about the four elements, unless of course you are one of those heretical modernists who posit a quintessence. Just-plain-folks don't seem to coin words like that. It seems a stretch that they would know the Latin word for cross, let alone know how to decline it ( crux > combining form cruci-). And where di they get that - bolum/- bulum end-bit? There is a Middle English word cresset used to gloss the Latin Crucibolum in one of OE vocabularies. It is not a small cross, but from Old French craisset 'grease' < Late Latin crassa 'grease'. There are Latin words crassipulum and crassipularium, which are pots for holding grease or oil for use with lamps. French gras 'fat', as in pâté foie gras, is related, as is grasset 'a kind of teal, a garganey'. I think that grease or oil has more to do with lamps (at least the wicked kind) than crosses and learned metaphors, but I'm just a simple guy.  [Addendum: just found a great folk-etymology that derives crucible from chrysoble from Greek χρυσός khrusos 'gold'.]
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Funny that the crassulaceae or fat plants are not really fat but succulent. The result of their capacity to store a lot of water. They look fat but it's just water.
'gold'chrysoble from Greek χρυσός khrusos
Isn't khrusos also related to cruzeiros ?
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They look fat but it's just water.
Does this crucible make me look fat?
Isn't khrusos also related to cruzeiros?
Nope, it's Portuguese for 'little cross'. Bringing us full circle.
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