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Oh, Max ... I am racking my brains but no luck. There is a name and I think it's similar to the Maori word. There was a delegation from OHA to the Maori in NZ and we had photos of one of the Trustees (Moses Keale ?) greeting a high ranking Maori in that manner as did other Trustees.
The subject of the greeting and its Maori and Hawaiian tradition was covered in the report of the visit. Also noted was that both languages had many words in common and when each spoke their own language the other could understand the gist of what was being said.
Sorry, still cannot think of it.
wow
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Who's afraid of Hell? All my friends are going to be there!
I am truly sorry to hear that, wwh.
No offense, but I don't think it's a joking matter. As a Christian, I feel about jokes about Hell the way a Jew might feel about Auschwitz jokes, if you know what I mean.
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Good grief francais. A gentle "lighten up" might be in order here. Most people I know are Christians, we have several Christians on Board, we even have a pastor (Father Steve) and I know of no one that would take exception to Bill’s joke…and it was that, a joke.
Please tell me what you find offensive about it.
In the Christian faith, hell is believed to be the place where the soul of a sinful person resides in eternal misery because of the evil things he did (sins he committed) while he was alive. The person chose to be there by disregarding the rules of Christianity. It is a bad place true, but how can you compare it to Auschwitz.
The people that were in Auschwitz did not go of their own accord. They did not choose, nor deserve to be treated that way. As a people, it is understandable that Jews would find no humour in jokes about Auschwitz for many reasons. Most can trace back to a family member, a friend, a neighbor or an acquaintance that was killed or lost in the war. Auschwitz is representative of the Holocaust and how easily inhumanity and cruelty can run amok when an evil power is left unchecked.
Jokes about Auschwitz are as unacceptable as jokes about black people or handicapped people. Those jokes are signs of bigotry.
I don’t know how you can compare the two.
Normally, I would have sent you a personal note however, since you felt the need to reproach Bill publicly, I believe it is the right thing to do to publicly take a stand in Bill’s defense.
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You're right, belMarduk; it's an imperfect analogy. What I was getting at was that both are places of intense suffering, and I don't think we should make light of that.
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Our dear wwh was using part of a very old joke!
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You're right, belMarduk; it's an imperfect analogy. What I was getting at was that both are places of intense suffering, and I don't think we should make light of that.Dear Francais31415 (may I call you Pi for short?  ) I think you're still on dodgy grounds here. What happened at Auschwitz is not deniable. The evidence is before us that probably the worst act ever perpetrated by a set of allegedly progressive people - The Holocaust - in the midst of our hubris about being civilised and liberal, was at Auschwitz and various other death-sites throughout Europe. Hell, on the other hand, to anybody not a Christian, is simply an unproven speculation. I am not a Jew, but I feel the horrors of the Holocaust. But to most people, the Christian hell will be, whether you like it or not, a fairy tale similar to the Santa Claus one, or the Easter Bunny, or the Twelve Labours of Hercules. It may be a great act of imagination, but since it doesn't have any demonstrable reality to us - the non-Christians - it is absurd for anyone to claim that it is akin to Auschwitz, for which all humanity must bear some guilt and some suffering. cheer the sunshine warrior
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>But to most people, the Christian hell will be, whether you like it or not, a fairy tale similar to the Santa Claus one, or the Easter Bunny, or the Twelve Labours of Hercules.
I'm with shanks and Joseph Campbell on this one... modern mythology. And I'd also like to add that I find the concept of Hell rather soothing sometimes, if only to think that that guy who just cut me off on the freeway will have somewhere to go.
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for which all humanity must bear some guilt and some suffering.
While I agree with the general tenor of your post, shanks, the above seemed just a little too sweeping. Surely the victims bear no guilt, be they Jews or one of the three million or so non-Jews who were also victims of the Nazi barbarism?
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There has got to be a better word than that though. It seems that guilt - meaning feeling responsibility or remorse, doesn't really cover it. Is there a word that means feeling responsibility to make sure it does not happen again?
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shanks asserts What happened at Auschwitz is not deniable.
Oh? What about the French revisionist academics who keep telling us it was all a ghastly mistake, that Hitler wasn't aware of what was going on, that it wasn't going on at all anyway, and that the Jews are exaggerating about the numbers who were killed for their own arcane political purposes in the camps which weren't death camps at all?
If this reads as being confused, it's because I've tried to encapsulate all of the revisionist views in one sentence ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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