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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Spanish grammar question: #187555 11/01/09 08:49 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York AnnaStrophic OP Carpal Tunnel OP AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York In the Mexican song Cielito Lindo, the refrain starts out like this: Ay, ay, ay, ay, Canta y no llores... I can't work out the endings. Canta looks like 3p sing. present tense; chores looks like 2p sing. present. Seems like both should be imperative: "Sing and don't cry." Wassup? Or is it just a dialect thang? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: AnnaStrophic #187559 11/01/09 10:32 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Slipped into Portuguese did we? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: Faldage #187561 11/01/09 11:27 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York AnnaStrophic OP Carpal Tunnel OP AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York oh, oops. I won't go back and edit it because then your comment won't make sense. llores[sp] = chores[pt] Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: AnnaStrophic #187563 11/01/09 11:50 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh Canta y no llores Looks like an imperative followed by a 2nd person singular present subjunctive. Iberian Romance is not my strong suit, but I believe the negative subjunctive is used in Spanish as a sort of hortative subjunctive for commands. 'Sing and don't cry'. Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: zmjezhd #187564 11/02/09 02:02 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Llorar is first conjugation (or whatever you call it) so the form with an -e- would be the subjunctive. Sounds good. Thanks, Nunc. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: Faldage #187574 11/02/09 12:18 PM Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York AnnaStrophic OP Carpal Tunnel OP AnnaStrophic Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 6,511 lower upstate New York Thanks, Nuncle, and I'm still waiting for twosleepy to weigh in. Meanwhile, seems to me cante would be the imperative since the infinitive is cantar. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: AnnaStrophic #187575 11/02/09 12:38 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh seems to me cante would be the imperative since the infinitive is cantar. Cante is the 3rd person singular imperative 'let her/him sing'. Canta is the 2nd person singular informal imperative 'sing (you)'. [Corrected error of omission.] Last edited by zmjezhd; 11/02/09 03:01 PM. Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Weighing in (run for your lives!) ;0) AnnaStrophic #187576 11/02/09 01:33 PM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY twosleepy old hand twosleepy old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY Here ya go, Anna: They are both correct and in the imperative. Negative tú commands are different than positive. Cantar = to sing present: canto, cantas, canta, cantamos, cantan subjunctive: cante, cantes, cante, cantemos, canten commands: tú: canta; Usted (Ud.): cante neg. commands: tú: no cantes; Ud.: no cante Yes, it's confusing! Plus, there are irregular verbs and all the usual nonsense, but in regular verbs it's just the negative tú that is different. :0) Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: zmjezhd #187577 11/02/09 02:10 PM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY twosleepy old hand twosleepy old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY Originally Posted By: zmjezhd seems to me cante would be the imperative since the infinitive is cantar. Cante is the 3rd person singular imperative 'let her/him sing'. Wrong! As far as I know, the only imperatives are second person. If you address a third person, s/he becomes second. You might say a third person should do something, but that would not be the imperative. Originally Posted By: zmjezhd Canta is the 2nd person singular informal 'sing (you)'. Wrong again! The second person singular is "cantas", as shown in my previous post. "Canta" is the third person singular. Wow! I got to say "wrong" to Zmjezhd, twice! I better figure out what "Zmjezhd" is in numbers and get a lottery ticket... ;0) and if I'm wrong, I'll have a heap o' slinkin' away to do... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Spanish grammar question: twosleepy #187582 11/02/09 03:28 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh Wow! I got to say "wrong" to Zmjezhd, twice! I am wrong on occasion and when I am I admit it. The second error was one of omission. I left out the mood: i.e., imperative. I've fixed that. Now about imperatives in Spanish in persons other than the 2nd person. Spanish, as other Romance languages, has imperatives in more than the 2nd person. For example: ¡Viva el rey! Just as the present subjunctive (no llores) is used for the negative imperative ("don't cry"), the present subjunctive is used for 3rd person imperatives, which usually have to be translated in English as, "let her/him X". References Wikipedia article Discussion of the third person imperative Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. 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