#18588
02/08/2001 10:15 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
Anyone know how it came to be pronounced as 'Seltic' in the U.S.?
|
|
|
#18589
02/08/2001 12:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Strange, ain't it. The Glasgow football team that is associated with sectarian violence vis-a-vis Rangers is also pronounced in the same fashion.
But I have no idea why, I have to admit.
|
|
|
#18590
02/08/2001 1:18 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
It's from the tendency for C to be pronounced s before e or i. With the rise in popularity of celtic music (pronounced keltic) it's normally only heard in the name of the Boston basketball team.
|
|
|
#18591
02/08/2001 1:19 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 197
member
|
|
member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 197 |
In our (united statsians) own defense, only sports fans pronounce it seltic, and then only when refering to sports teams. (is it basket ball? i don't follow sports much) There was a movie out some time ago called "celtic pride". I was quite confused when, after having seen the name printed, I heard someone refer to 'seltic pride.'
|
|
|
#18592
02/08/2001 3:45 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
I always found it amusing that in Boston, where so much of the population is from Celtic roots, nearly everyone mispronounces the word due to the name of the basketball team. Not sure how the team's name came to be pronounced that way, but I'd have to go with Faldage's theory, and figure that the average Boston hoops fan (among which I counted myself, for some time) just didn't know any better.
I once played on a soccer team in Boston known as the Celtics, and we had frequent debates about how to pronounce the name of the team.
|
|
|
#18593
02/08/2001 6:54 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
) it's normally only heard in the name of the Boston basketball team.Or, as has been mentioned, in the name of one half of the sporting/sectarian feud in Glasgow, Jimmy. Where I live, one hears of Glasgow Seltic much more often than one hears of the Boston Seltics. 
|
|
|
#18594
02/08/2001 7:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
by's original question: pronounced as 'Seltic' in the U.S.?
MaxQ notes: Where I live, one hears of Glasgow Seltic much more often than one hears of the Boston Seltics.
US'ns mostly never hearn of no Glasgow Seltic. Maybe in Glasgow, KY. You ever get down there, Jackie?
|
|
|
#18595
02/09/2001 2:07 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
I was under the impression that the 's' pronunciation was standard in the U.S., though now that it's been mentioned I remember the Glasgow Celtics. I read that the 'sel'tik' pronunciation comes from the French once. I know Celtic can also be spelt Keltic; this might save some trouble. Really odd how the 's' stuck with the sports team, isn't it!
|
|
|
#18596
02/09/2001 2:18 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
kriegführendjugend states: I was under the impression that the 's' pronunciation was standard in the U.S.
It was standard not so many years ago*. The popularity of Keltic music put paid to that.
*One of the three signs of old age is thinking it wasn't that many years ago.
|
|
|
#18597
02/09/2001 2:27 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
One of the three signs of old age is thinking it wasn't that many years ago.Guess that makes us forever young!  wow
|
|
|
#18598
02/09/2001 5:26 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
US'ns mostly never hearn of no Glasgow Seltic. Maybe in Glasgow, KY. You ever get down there, Jackie?Why yes, the Glasgow Seltics are famous state-wide. They're a high-school skittles team. Since this is not a very well-known sport, they decided they'd better do something to make themselves better known, so they began wearing Celtic costumes to the matches. Usually unnerved the other teams, too. *One of the three signs of old age is thinking it wasn't that many years ago.What are the other two, Sweetie, just so I'll know what else to watch out for?
|
|
|
#18599
02/09/2001 6:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 52
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 52 |
In the "arty" design world it is spelled celtic, but always pronounced keltic. Not being into sports, I had never realized that the Seltics was spelled with a "C".
|
|
|
#18600
02/09/2001 7:39 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Faldage said : *One of the three signs of old age is thinking it wasn't that many years ago.Then Jackie asked What are the other two, Sweetie, just so I'll know what else to watch out for?As I wrote in a private message to Faldage : First you lose your hair color (the natural color that is) Second you lose your figure Then you can't remember why they were so important. wow
|
|
|
#18601
02/11/2001 11:37 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I read that the 'sel'tik' pronunciation comes from the French once
hmmm, maybe you're right about that BY. A "C" in front of an "E" is pronounced like an "S" in French. But it seems odd that the U.S. would have adopted this pronunciation from the French.
|
|
|
#18602
02/12/2001 2:46 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
okay, here's the shock of the day: OED gives the seltic pronunciation first, coming from French or(?) Latin.
("sEltIk, "kEltIk) [a. F. celtique or ad. L. celtic-us of the Celts.]
|
|
|
#18603
02/12/2001 10:50 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
OED gives the seltic pronunciation first
... confirming the classical bias tendency in so much of our cultural institutions founded on 18th & 19th c. values...?
|
|
|
#18604
02/12/2001 11:51 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
One of the three signs of old age is thinking it wasn't that many years ago.
What are the other two, Sweetie, just so I'll know what else to watch out for? The second one is, for men at least, forgetting to do your flies up. The third? Forgetting to undo them in the first place  
|
|
|
#18605
02/12/2001 11:57 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
The other option is
(ii) Hairs on the palm of your hand
(iii) looking for them!
|
|
|
#18606
02/12/2001 1:34 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
or like the billy goats of nursery rhyms-- hairs on your chinny, chin, chin!
I still of an age where a tweezer works!-- but i first learned about 'waxing' as a means of hair removal from my nana, who, waxed her chin every 3 days or so.
|
|
|
#18607
02/12/2001 2:04 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Good Lord - and I used to think my Grandma was saying, "I had a good chinwag with my friends this week!" 
|
|
|
#18608
02/12/2001 2:25 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
of Troy wrote : but i first learned about 'waxing' as a means of hair removal from my nana, who, waxed her chin every 3 days or so
Excuse me a moment while I go melt a candle!
wow
|
|
|
#18609
02/12/2001 2:31 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
OK. What is the Gaelic (and I know there are different forms of the language) word for Celtic? Maybe the hard C for the tribe stems from its own language.
|
|
|
#18610
02/12/2001 2:46 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
AnnaS asks: What is the Gaelic word for Celtic?
In modern Scottish it is Gaidhealach for the race and Gàidhlig for the language. In neither of those words is the dh pronounced anything at all like a dental plosive or stop. If heard at all it would be something of a y sound. What the word was back when the Scots still lived in Hibernia when the Romans (who still pronounced all Cs hard anyway and who first met the Celts much earlier in the Gauls) I have no idea.
There were also Goidelic Celts (Scots and Irish) and Brythonic Celts (Britons and Gauls) and the terms above would only refer, at least in modern Gaelic, probably only to the Goidelic.
|
|
|
#18611
02/12/2001 6:39 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
The modern Welsh form of the Brythonic tongue would, I think, be celtaidd, rendered KEL-ti-eeth, tho' I may be making that end sound too long and open. My Welsh is even worse'n my English spillin!
|
|
|
#18612
02/13/2001 7:49 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
I don't think the Celts traditionally ever called themselves just that; it was more a name given to them by .... (fill in the blank: the Romans?, the Normans?). The names to describe themselves are far more localised.
|
|
|
#18613
02/13/2001 11:10 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427 |
I keep thinking that the /k/ pronunciation of Celtic must be of the same nature as the /k/ pronunciation of the word ceilidh, referring to a traditional social event in Scotland, with much music and vigorous folk-dancing. Any thoughts on this? Ceilidhs are jolly good fun, and such a good way of burning calories! 
|
|
|
#18614
02/13/2001 11:47 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
more a name given to them by ....
Yes, I think that is partly true, in that most groups are more clearly recognised by the outsider - I believe the origin of the word is Latin (Celtae?) from Greek keltoi, hence the hard k sound. Not sure where Ceilidh fits in though Marianna - I think that comes direct from the Irish Gaelic form, doesn't it Helen?
|
|
|
#18615
02/13/2001 7:43 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Marianna suggests: I keep thinking that the /k/ pronunciation of Celtic must be of the same nature as the /k/ pronunciation of the word ceilidh
The Gaelic (whether Irish or Scots) c is always a hard, /k/ sound, regardless of the following sound. I don't think there is any connection between the word céilidh (I believe the Irish is céili without the dh and I'm not sure about the é in the Irish) and the word Celtic. I don't doubt that there was some connection between the Greek keltoi and the Celts name for themselves. The Scots Gaidhealach is just too close and probably the dh was pronounced time back way back.
|
|
|
#18616
02/13/2001 8:59 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
from Greek keltoi
Yes, keltoi is the Greek word for warrior.
|
|
|
#18617
02/13/2001 9:13 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
belM>But it seems odd that the U.S. would have adopted this pronunciation [seltic] from the French. maybe not that odd...if the French were the first to use the term in modern times, we would have been much more likely to follow their lead then would the British, who would have taken pains to appropriate a Greek/Latin style!
|
|
|
#18618
02/14/2001 12:31 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427 |
Yep, I was thinking of a phonetic correlation more than an etymological connection. I didn't know that c is always a /k/ in Gaelic. Thanks, Faldage.
|
|
|
#18619
02/14/2001 12:22 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
c is always a /k/ in GaelicI live next to a village with a wonderful castle which for many decades was known as Kilgerran - but has now been reinstated as Cilgerran. And I work in the town of Cardigan, which in Welsh is pronounced Aber-ti-vee http://www.castlewales.com/cliger.html(edit-in) I should explain that the Welsh name is Aberteifi = Mouth of the Teifi, which is the tidal estuary that made Cardigan a major port in previous years - bigger than Bristol at one time, and home to several vessels taking immigrants to the USA.
|
|
|
#18621
02/19/2001 4:23 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
keltoi is the Greek word for warrior
And, in Hawaiian, koa is a word for warrior.
The Hale Koa hotel in Waikiki is The House (hale) of the Warrior
wow
|
|
|
#18622
02/19/2001 4:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 771
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 771 |
wow said: The Hale Koa hotel in Waikiki is The House (hale) of the Warrior.So do they leave mince on your pillow?
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,916
Posts230,406
Members9,211
| |
Most Online17,319
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
