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stranger
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stranger
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"...on secondment to Hollywood"? Now there's a tweedy Britishment!
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newbie
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In Britain, "tweedy" has evolved further from the definition given in AWAD ("Academic or scholarly; Informal; casual; outdoorsy"), and now has quite negative connotations. When applied to academics it presents an image that they are stuffy; outdated or old-fashioned; insulated from the harsh reality of the world outside. There may be some truth in this, for certain individuals...but there's no denying that much of it is grounded in the fairly widespread attitude of contempt for learning. (Oddly, Britain seems to be the only country in the world where calling someone "clever" is regarded as insulting them).
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Carpal Tunnel
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Gosh, Ray, you've been gone a while--welcome back! Wow, that's really an interesting addition in meaning(s) of this word; thank you.
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Thank you, Jackie! True, I don't contribute often, but I do read the AWAD emails ever day. I only feel moved to comment in the forum when I think I have something original to add.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Carpal Tunnel
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Could be that something you did not consider original in fact was and is lost to our benefit this way.
Contempt for learning is not a unique British privilege. It is just named differently in other countries.
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Ray, are you still around? If so, I am hoping that maybe you have studied James Joyce enough to enlighten me: I am struggling to get through Ulysses (and I'm not going to make it--book club is tomorrow), and I am wondering why he wrote it a.) like that, or b.) at all.
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a) like what? b) this isn't 'CliffsNotes', but it's probly the best you can do for tomorrow: link edit: huh. this purports to be CliffsNotes
Last edited by tsuwm; 05/23/2009 4:12 AM. Reason: add CliffsLink
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a) like what? All that stream-of-consciousness stuff so that it is often difficult to figure out who is thinking/talking; sidesteps into...a sort of verse--with no explanation. I have followed Bloom through a funeral, many streets and encounters, and still have no idea who he is in relation to the characters who first appeared. And when he was in a pub, suddenly Stephen was there--I went back several times to preceding pages but could not find where he entered or was espied by anyone; he just starts talking. That kind of thing. Er--although I recall little about The Odyssey, I can comprehend that what happens in this book is supposed to be something of a parallel to it. But why did Mr. Joyce choose to do it by people thinking--with a little conversation thrown in--rather than the more typical story-telling fashion? Was he being, or trying to be, clever? Was he drunk or mentally ill? Did he just want to do somthing different?
Thanks for the link. I shall certainly not loiter over Ch. 12! This chapter is narrated largely by an unnamed denizen of Dublin...The chapter is marked by extended digressions made outside the voice of the unnamed narrator: hyperboles of legal jargon, Biblical passages, Irish mythology, etc., with lists of names often extending half a page. Without even having seen a word of this chapter, I ask again: why would anyone write like that as part of a book?
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I hope you will find time to report about your book-club meeting. I know there are people (like my sky-high I-Q-ed brother in law) who find when you haven't read and admired Ulysses you have read nothing at all.
I got stuck on page 6 or 10 so I admire you effort and you even reaching chapter 12. I'm interested in what the rest of your club made of it.
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Besides the Burgess book mentioned above, you might look at the older standard reference Stuart Gilbert James Joyce's Ulysses: A study 1930. (It should be available in paperback.) Wikipedia also has a nice synopsis of the book ( link). Joyce wrote the way he did because he enjoyed it, and because he thought he was on to something. Novels took a turn in the 19th century and started concentrating more on the psychology of the characters and less on plot. I'm thinking of authors like Dostoevsky, Huysman, Proust. We still see this distinction today between plot- and character-driven novels and films. I was in Dublin on 16 June 1982, when over 200 actors performed The Wandering Rocks episode from the book, simultaneously throughout the city. In the end, the appreciation of most art comes down to the personal taste of the consumer. If you don't like Joyce, skip him. If you want to read Joyce before he settled on stream of conscious, read The Dubliners. On the subject of mental illness, Joyce's daughter Lucia was mentally ill.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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>16 june
"Bloomsday", coming up soon!
-joe (nice link there, jim) friday
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Novels took a turn in the 19th century and started concentrating more on the psychology of the characters and less on plot. No wonder I didn't like Crime and Punishment. (nice link there, jim)  Pretty much everyone (all 5 of us) felt the same as I did trying to read this book: "Wha-aa...?!" The only differing comment was from the lady who said don't try to make sense of it; just enjoy his use of language. Joyce wrote the way he did because he enjoyed it, and because he thought he was on to something. Thanks, Honey. :-)
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Thanks for the report and other people's links. Finnagan's Wake and the Dubliners. That'll be all Joyce for me. I s'pose.
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What do you Americans need Joyce for anyway when you've got Faulkner?
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What do you Americans need Joyce for anyway when you've got Faulkner?
I think my loose canon can contain both, thank you very much. Trying to think of my favorite Dutch author. J. M. Coetzee? No he's South African and writes in English. Joris-Karl Huysmans? No, he's a Frenchman. Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus? Well, he was Dutch, but he wrote in Latin. Oh, well. I'll go with 'Rasmus. Who's your favorite Dutch author, BranShea? Is there a Dutch Joyce? I've read a little of the German Joyce, Arno Schmidt.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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So you have the both. Coetzee is South African, yes, but I love that writer very much too. Hard thinking about my favorite Dutch writer; ( I love Erasmus'ses writings in good translations ) it always brings me down to this one writer who is in fact a poet : Martinus Nijhof My favorite of his poems ; Het Uur U ( The Hour You or U ) He uses rhyme quite strictly, but the cadance of the rhytm undoes any possible dullness. Het Uur U With your knowledge of German you might grasp the clear language he uses. The automatic translation is awful but I see I can help improve it which I will try. Here it is anyway to give a faint impression. translation Absolutly abominable. "that the street still verlaterner shin" * should be : (litt.) "that the street seemed even more deserted" That sentence * is neither Dutch nor English
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