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old hand
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OP
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hiver
which is why I thought you brought up hibernate? Exactly! I am actually surprised that there doesn't seem to be a connection.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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so, doesn't your kink confirm that "gheim" IS the base for winter?
No, goofy's link shows that the PIE root glossed as winter is the origin of Latin hiems 'winter], hibernus] 'pertaining to winter', (it's also the source of Sanskrit hima 'cold, frost; snow' whence Himalayas the mountain range). Some derive English winter (and the other Germanic words like German Winter) from PIE *kweid- 'white, light'. ok, I'm confused. PIE gheim -> heims -> winter, no? maybe I'm just not reading the nomenclature correctly?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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ok, I'm confused. PIE gheim -> heims -> winter, no?No. We have two different PIE roots: 1. * gheim-- 'winter' > Latin hiems > French hiver. 2. * kweid 'white, light (in color)' > English white, winter. You're confusing the the meaning of a Latin word or PIE root (which is given in English) with the roots and words in other languages. The problem is one of those words we are discussing shows up both as a word the etymology of which we are discussing (e.g., winter) as well as the given meaning of the some foreign words (e.g., hiems, hiver). I try in my posts to distinguish between the two different kinds of words by putting the roots under discussion in italics and the meanings in 'single quotation marks' (actually foot signs for the nit-pickier than I). The thing is that PIE * gh- does not correspond to an English w-, but to English g-, as in the etymology for go I posted in another thread. PIE * kw- corresponds to Old English hw- (by Grimm's law of stops turning into fricatives), which becomes wh- in English. There is a problem with PIE * kweid- (see link in AHD) being the actual root that English winter 'winter' came from, and that is what happened to the h. That's why I hedged and said "some" trace English winter back to PIE * kweid- 'white'. The truth is more likely that we will never know. It is interesting that all many of the IE daughter languages, except for the Germanic, have survivals of the PIE root * gheim- 'winter': e.g., Baltic, Slavic, Greek, Italic, Indic.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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ah! the foot signs ' ' make all the difference. I was confusing root etymology with meaning.
thank you, zmj, for taking the time to clear that up for me!
and my fiancée laughs at me because I say "hwite"...
:¬ )
formerly known as etaoin...
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because I say "hwite"
Sadly my dialect lacks these hs. Do you pronounce the h in whale? I ask because it is not, etymologically speaking, supposed to be there. (And how many syllables in drawer? 1, 1.5, 2, or 3?)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Carpal Tunnel
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because I say "hwite"
Sadly my dialect lacks these hs. Do you pronounce the h in whale? I ask because it is not, etymologically speaking, supposed to be there. (And how many syllables in drawer? 1, 1.5, 2, or 3?) whale - yup, I say hwale. silly me. learning my hws apparently transfers to all whs! and drawer, well, is that a wooden place in a cabinet, or someone who draws? 1.5 for the former, and 2 for the latter. :¬ )
formerly known as etaoin...
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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It is interesting that all many of the IE daughter languages, except for the Germanic, have survivals of the PIE root *gheim- 'winter': e.g., Baltic, Slavic, Greek, Italic, Indic. so the reason for the absence of *gheim is a little German(ic) secret?
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Carpal Tunnel
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so the reason for the absence of *gheim is a little German(ic) secret? धन! Best laugh I've had in a month. Thanks. (But just in case, German geheim 'secret' is related to German Heimat 'homeland', English home < PIE * tkei- ( link).)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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old hand
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OP
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Okay, all gobbledygook aside, what is the Final Answer??? Is, or is there not, a connection between hibernate and winter? I can't pull out a definitive answer from all the posts... thanks! :0)
PS I say hwite, hwile, hwy, hwich, etc. etc. I have been "corrected" by my students for pronouncing them incorrectly...
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well of course there's a connection; hibernation is what your sensible Northern mammal does during the winter! all kidding aside, it would seem to depend on your frame of reference, ron replied, relatively speaking.
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