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I don't know a lot of French, but shouldn't this phrase be pronounced swee zhan-uhr-ee?
Both pronunciations (visual and audio) seem wrong.
Mitch
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I'm afraid sui generis isn 't French but Latin.
So maybe the French pronounce their Latin your way. As each language has it's own pronounciation for Latin we would pronounce it like sùwee gayneris (throaty G)
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I don't know a lot of French Which does not seem particularly relevant to a discussion of the Latin phrase sui generis. Since the phrase is not French, why would it pronounced as if it were?
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I don't know a lot of French Which does not seem particularly relevant to a discussion of the Latin phrase sui generis. Since the phrase is not French, why would it pronounced as if it were? This comment does not seem particularly relevant to the question asked by mitchpowell. Since he (?) thought it was French, he also thought it would be pronounced as French. If he knew it was Latin, he wouldn't have posted at all. What is the point of highlighting the fact that he didn't know it was Latin? Yes, the email does say "From Latin", however that does not necessarily mean it is Latin. mitchpowell: Welcome to the board! I don't know a lot of French, either. You've got good company. I do know some Latin, but I can see how "sui", which I did not recognize, might look like French to some. This phrase is new to me. President Obama used another phrase which illustrates the kind that always bugs me: "...the only people that really know are the collection of ex-Presidents we have." It sounds wrong to me. I am wanting to put "in" or "part of" after "are": "...the only people that really know are in/part of the collection of ex-Presidents we have." Any comments?
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I don't know a lot of French Which does not seem particularly relevant to a discussion of the Latin phrase sui generis. Since the phrase is not French, why would it pronounced as if it were? This comment does not seem particularly relevant to the question asked by mitchpowell. Since he (?) thought it was French, he also thought it would be pronounced as French. If he knew it was Latin, he wouldn't have posted at all. What is the point of highlighting the fact that he didn't know it was Latin? Yes, the email does say "From Latin", however that does not necessarily mean it is Latin. mitchpowell: Welcome to the board! I don't know a lot of French, either. You've got good company. I do know some Latin, but I can see how "sui", which I did not recognize, might look like French to some. This phrase is new to me. President Obama used another phrase which illustrates the kind that always bugs me: "...the only people that really know are the collection of ex-Presidents we have." It sounds wrong to me. I am wanting to put "in" or "part of" after "are": "...the only people that really know are in/part of the collection of ex-Presidents we have." Any comments? 3 PART COMMENT: 1) I totally agree with 2sleepy's read on this. 2) MY first response to sui generis was: If this is Word for a Day, when did it become 2 words for a day? Is Anu bending the rules because it's an expression from a foreign language? Does he sometimes have a two word WORD in english as well? JUST WONDERING... 3) On your final comment sleepy, I was wondering, do you prefer "data are" or "data is"? I'm slowly getting used to data are, having been committed to "data is", for years. Apparently the Times still uses both. The example you were wondering about seems more natural for me to use the plural because the reference to the "collection of ex-presidents". With data, I guess I've always been used to viewing it as singular.
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Does he sometimes have a two word WORD in english as well? JUST WONDERING... wow, there's a sixty-four-dollar question; or, take a look a his "word" list. (or, "This week we'll feature terms"...) - joe (just being a wise-guy again) friday
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I'm afraid sui generis isn 't French but Latin.
So maybe the French pronounce their Latin your way. As each language has it's own pronounciation for Latin we would pronounce it like sùwee gayneris (throaty G) There are basically two main pronunciations of Latin: Classic and Ecclesiastical. Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer" Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar" If you are classic: it is: su ee gay nay ris if you're Ecclesiastical: su ee jen er is
Last edited by LukeJavan8; 01/24/2009 12:17 AM.
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Presidents are sui generis: that is why it is so lonely
at the top.
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Does he sometimes have a two word WORD in english as well? JUST WONDERING... wow, there's a sixty-four-dollar question; or, take a look a his "word" list. (or, "This week we'll feature terms"...) - joe (just being a wise-guy again) friday Aha! Thanks for the link.
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Then there's always the German pronunciation of Latin. Yet another variant.
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3) On your final comment sleepy, I was wondering, do you prefer "data are" or "data is"?
I'm slowly getting used to data are, having been committed to "data is", for years. Apparently the Times still uses both. The example you were wondering about seems more natural for me to use the plural because the reference to the "collection of ex-presidents". With data, I guess I've always been used to viewing it as singular. I have to admit, although it makes my prescriptivist fairy cringe, that my ear prefers "data is". Thing is, you almost never hear "datum", but I suppose that would be "datum is". Sometimes ya just gotta throw up your hands and go with your gut! :0) Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have."
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There are basically two main pronunciations of Latin: Classic and Ecclesiastical.
Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"
If you are classic: it is: su ee gay nay ris
if you're Ecclesiastical: su ee jen er is
You can subdivide the Ecclesiastical into, mainly, German (Caesar = tseh sar) and Italianate (Caesar = tsheh sar). There may be other versions of the Ecclesiastical. Then there's US legal Latin which is basically an abomination. Sine die, which would be "see neh dee eh" in Classical, or either of the main Ecclesiasticals, is "sigh knee die" in US legal.
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[/quote] Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have." [/quote] I guess I fell into the trap there. Now I feel very uncomfortable! 
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On the other hand, it's not the collection that knows, it's the ex-presidents that make up the collection. And they know.
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There are basically two main pronunciations of Latin: Classic and Ecclesiastical.
Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"
If you are classic: it is: su ee gay nay ris
if you're Ecclesiastical: su ee jen er is [/quote]
Well, since Obama claims to be the President of the common man, what is he doing using Latin regardless of the way it is pronounced? To me it is too "generous sooey" amy way you slice it.
I thought A.W.A.D. dealt with words that were common to English. There are some Latin phrases and clauses that may have become appropriate to spoken and written English; but it would seem that this is not one of them.
I don't think I'm long for AWAD's Forums. Since beginning to post here, I've been getting a lot of canned ham and was getting none before.
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Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"
The reconstructed classical pronunciation of Latin would pronounce Caesar /'kajsar/ (in Greek it was transcribed Καίσαρ kaisar) and the Italian (or Ecclesiastical) would be /'ʧɛzar/. Many of the European countries have (had) their own peculiar Latin pronunciation bringing it more into line with the phonological inventory of the corresponding national languages.
Since beginning to post here, I've been getting a lot of canned ham and was getting none before.
If you're concerned about spam emails, one way to lighten the flow is to get yourself a Yahoo, Gmail, or Hotmail account and only use that when signing up for online forums. Gmail has a particularly nice spam filter.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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On the other hand, it's not the collection that knows, it's the ex-presidents that make up the collection. And they know. Thank you Faldage. I'm feeling more comfortable again..
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Then there's always the German pronunciation of Latin. Yet another variant. Exactly. I think I was just thinking about taking Latin in the US and changing schools in high school. I had to learn to re-pronounce everything Veni, vidi, vici. l) Vay nee, vee dee, vee chee 2) wen nee, wid ee, wik kee.
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For those who did not read AWAD< Anu, this week:
Joke a few years past. Chinese restaurant served
Chop suey generous.
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3) On your final comment sleepy, I was wondering, do you prefer "data are" or "data is"? Data is ...an android.
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Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have." I guess I fell into the trap there. Now I feel very uncomfortable! No, the subject is "the only people" for which the correct form of the verb is 'are.' And 'collection' is the object. The people that know are the collection of presidents.
Last edited by The Pook; 01/27/2009 2:37 PM.
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reverse the syllables and it is a victory cry (of sorts):
Tada!!
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Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have." I guess I fell into the trap there. Now I feel very uncomfortable! No, the subject is "the only people" for which the correct form of the verb is 'are.' And 'collection' is the object. The people that know are the collection of presidents. Okay, this is why this type of phrase bugs me! I'm never sure what's correct, or why; some things just sound wrong. But that doesn't make them wrong, I realize. There are some that are correct, and I know it, but still sound wrong to me, and many others. For example: "Join Mr. Rogers and me for a walk around the Neighborhood". Many think this should be "Join Mr. Rogers and I...", but this can be demonstrated as incorrect by removing Mr. Rogers from the equation to reveal "Join I..." which sounds wrong to most people, and is wrong. Although I am no youngster, I missed the era of sentence diagramming, hence my apparent gaps in grammar ability. Your correction, Pook, still sounds wrong to me! And by the way, why haven't any tennis players dropped dead yet?!?!? For pity's sake, it was 142 (yes, one hundred forty two) degrees on center court yesterday!
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[quote=The Pook][quote]For pity's sake, it was 142 (yes, one hundred forty two) degrees on center court yesterday! Using the when in Rome principle one could say that it was 61 degrees on centre court yesterday. Since few countries still use Fahrenheit that's probably also more informative to a wider audience of Wordsmith's non-US readership.
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And by the way, why haven't any tennis players dropped dead yet?!?!? For pity's sake, it was 142 (yes, one hundred forty two) degrees on center court yesterday!
Are you sure you haven't mis-read 42C as 142F? I can't find any news reporting that it was over 105F.
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And by the way, why haven't any tennis players dropped dead yet?!?!? For pity's sake, it was 142 (yes, one hundred forty two) degrees on center court yesterday!
Are you sure you haven't mis-read 42C as 142F? I can't find any news reporting that it was over 105F. That would make sense. News reports on Djokovic's default all say the temperature was about 33C. That makes an on-court temperature between 40C and 50C very likely, as in other matches on that day but 61C seems improbable.
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Well, I was watching it live, and they kept saying 142, and showing the thermometer, which only went to 60C, and the needle was past that... Besides, this was the temp on center court, in the sun, not the reported temp at the airport (or where ever they measure it). :0)
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And by the way, why haven't any tennis players dropped dead yet?!?!? For pity's sake, it was 142 (yes, one hundred forty two) degrees on center court yesterday!
Are you sure you haven't mis-read 42C as 142F? I can't find any news reporting that it was over 105F. Quite right. Even Melbourne in high Summer doesn't get that high! 142F would be 61C!!! Even Death Valley isn't that hot. Djokovic would have expired, not just retired! Nevertheless, it was the hottest week in Melbourne for 100 years, and the Australian Open organisers are going to revamp the whole complex (apart from Rod Laver arena which doesn't need it) to provide more shade on the non-centre courts in future, which is where it's mostly needed as most of the day matches occur in the earlier rounds - the finals are almost all in the late afternoon-evening. The Australian Open is the only Grand Slam event that has an extreme heat policy, btw.
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Okay, so either you're saying I'm lying, or that someone at the Open rigged a thermometer to show 60+ degrees on camera, and paid the ESPN commentators to lie about the temperature being 142 degrees. Which is it???
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Okay, so either you're saying I'm lying, or that someone at the Open rigged a thermometer to show 60+ degrees on camera, and paid the ESPN commentators to lie about the temperature being 142 degrees. Which is it??? I never said anyone was lying. But it was not 61 degrees C (142F) in the shade, which is how air temperature is measured. The hottest on record in Australia is just under 130F. I suppose it may conceivably have been that hot if you put a thermometer in the sun on the court surface of one of the outside courts earlier in the tournament. But probably not yesterday - it was not the hottest day of the tournament so far. Quote from Sydney Morning Herald: "As the players hit up to begin the match the temperature on court was merely 28C - 10 less than forecast. Though it warmed a little thereafter - hitting 32 - the roof was open, the temperature too low to trigger the tournament's heat policy." There are other reasons for Djokovic's inability to cope with the heat, such as his 3am finish in his five setter two nights earlier. Roddick, who has been super fit lately, didn't have the same difficulty and didn't think it was particularly hot that day on centre court.
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yeah, I watched a bit of the women's quarters draw tonight (tomorrow : ), and the radiant heat in the black seats was 171F - the air temp was like 101F.
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Surface temperature on some highly absorptive surface may be considerably higher than air temperature.
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It was pretty hot here today too, around 32C. But Melbourne had 43C! (Don't know what that was in the sun on the black seats, probably about 70C!) They closed the roof for the second half of the match that Serena Williams won.
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It was pretty hot here today too, around 32C. But Melbourne had 43C! (Don't know what that was in the sun on the black seats, probably about 70C!) They closed the roof for the second half of the match that Serena Williams won. that's the one I was watching - 171F! (77C?)
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Here in Texas, we normally have several weeks every year with high "official" temperatures over 100F (and over 110 is not unheard of and I've experienced 120 a few times) and it's not commonly reported about how this and that surface in the full sun is over 140 nor do we put thermometers out in the sun and claim it's accurate.
If it weren't the hottest week in Melbourne as a news reporting sensation, wouldn't these inflated temperatures readings still be proportional (if not the same?) to the official readings, i.e. if it were only 90F, wouldn't a black surface in the sun still be over 120F? Wow, that sounds really hot!!! but it probably happens all the time.
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Here in Texas, we normally have several weeks every year with high "official" temperatures over 100F (and over 110 is not unheard of and I've experienced 120 a few times) and it's not commonly reported about how this and that surface in the full sun is over 140 nor do we put thermometers out in the sun and claim it's accurate.
If it weren't the hottest week in Melbourne as a news reporting sensation, wouldn't these inflated temperatures readings still be proportional (if not the same?) to the official readings, i.e. if it were only 90F, wouldn't a black surface in the sun still be over 120F? Wow, that sounds really hot!!! but it probably happens all the time. When you think about it, one has to take the accuracy of all historical temperature records with a bit of a grain of salt, since the kind of shelter providing the "in the shade" part of the formula has not always been standard. An analogue thermometer read by failing eyesight in a wooden box might conceivably give more variable results than a modern digital weather station like these ones. At any given (manual) weather station at any given time the accuracy depends on the construction (and maintenance) of the weather station and the competence of the human recorder. There is even of course the possibility of local pride inflating or deflating figures to break a record. However, the overall picture and wider averages should be reliable as such possible vagaries even out over time.
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the players were not however in a shady hammock but out on that black surface running around, slamming balls and trying to focus. It is a wonder they weren't injured whatever the official shaded weatherman was experiencing.
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Actually it's blue. I think it's some of the seats that are black.
Tasmania had record highs today. Flinders Island just off the coast north from here (between here and Melbourne) scored our all time state highest of 41C (106F). That was 19C (34F) above average! Here we met our previous record for a January day of 35.6C. It's still over 30 in my study at 10pm.
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It is a wonder they weren't injured whatever the official shaded weatherman was experiencing. At the same time, you can't go sticking your thermometer into a cup of coffee that happens to be on the court and report the players experienced temperatures of 212F. IMO, the reporters are being sensational. People do outdoor activities here when it is even hotter without complaining about the pavement being 150 degrees (unless they're barefoot). If the air that the players were breathing was really constantly 142F, I'm fairly sure they would soon lapse into a coma like a dog left in a car with the windows closed even if they weren't exercising vigorously.
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