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Examples want we? Well, the same empty head that conjured "orientate", no doubt from "orientation", could easily produce "personificate". Then once it is embraced by the coddling apologists and put in a dictionary it can make its contribution to "retardify" the language.
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I have always been suspicious of the word orientation itself. The past passive participle of Latin orior is ortus, so the abstract nominal form should be ortion. But it is funny how one group gets its its up when you verb a noun, as happened with orient, and another comes down pseudo-medievally on back formations such as orientate. The OED (1st brick and mortar version) lists orientate without censure and provides citations from the mid 19th century. Surely long enough to allow its naturalization. I like the hue and heft of orientate but seldom use it unmockingly. But anything that stokes the peevological bonfires is A-OK with me.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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 "retardify"
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Then once it is embraced by the coddling apologists and put in a dictionary it can make its contribution to "retardify" the language. Isn't that a Bushism? I hardly can listen to the man without wanting to tear out my prescriptivist hair... but wouldn't he be the poster child darling of descriptivists? He personifies that make-it-up-as-you-go free-wheeling linguism.... :0)
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but wouldn't he be the poster child darling of descriptivists? He personifies that make-it-up-as-you-go free-wheeling linguismThis was too much for a soi-disant descriptivist, such as moi, to let go by without an observation. The prescriptivists wouldn't know a real grammatical rule if it walked up and bit them on their tukhes. A descriptivist determines what the rules governing language are by describing how people use said language. Prescriptivists make up rules, which more often than not they themselves don't follow ( link, link, and link), or borrow them from some other grammar hooligans. The latter use faulty logic, ignore history, and just get the facts plain wrong.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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but wouldn't he be the poster child darling of descriptivists? He personifies that make-it-up-as-you-go free-wheeling linguism.... :0) This is a classic example of the misconception that descriptivists accept any usage as correct as long as one person has used it. This is probably the best refutation (or should that be refution?) of that idea that I have run across.
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Examples want we? Well, the same empty head that conjured "orientate", no doubt from "orientation", could easily produce "personificate". Then once it is embraced by the coddling apologists and put in a dictionary it can make its contribution to "retardify" the language. ...or how about pontificate, which is what peevologists on both sides of the grammatical fence are doing in superabundantiation!
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Then once it is embraced by the coddling apologists and put in a dictionary it can make its contribution to "retardify" the language. Isn't that a Bushism? I hardly can listen to the man without wanting to tear out my prescriptivist hair... but wouldn't he be the poster child darling of descriptivists? He personifies that make-it-up-as-you-go free-wheeling linguism.... :0) ...which is nowhere near the definition of descriptivism. Bushisms are simply, well, Bushisms. They are most noticeable not so much for their grammatical errors as for their logical errors. In that sense he is much more aligned with the prescriptivist camp.  ...what dzhaymz & faldy said.
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I'm sure you all realize my tongue was firmly cheek-planted, and that I was indulging in a little pot-stirring today... But having said that, I think Pullum got this exactly right, Fal:
"But there had better be a third position, because these two extreme ones are both utterly insane."
Most of the contributors on this website seem to represent that "third position", which IMHO is a good thing. As in life, black and white are rare, and the many shades of gray predominate. :0)
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From the third one of your link , link and link
"I do go by sounds as well as by grammar." Sounds good to me.
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I have always been suspicious of the word orientation itself. ... A. actually did ponder that, wondering why "oriention" is not standing in, just as "workic" should be. There should be considerable lamention over this.
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I'd have thought that a peevologist is one who practices peevology, being merely the art or science of peeving.
-joe (adding another peeve to the collection) friday
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So, someone who collects peeves would be a peevemeister? peevehead? peeveophile? :0)
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peevology
English anthology (calqued in Latin as florilegium) 'a collection of epigrams' < Greek ανθολογια (anthologia). So, philology can only mean 'the study of love'? It means something more along the lines of 'love of words'. Compound words are almost as tricky as any other kind of collocation: ancient history teacher anybody?
—beppo beppino (the grammatical cynic) venerdì
[Derhotacized one word.]
Last edited by zmjezhd; 05/02/2008 5:34 PM.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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>So, philology can only mean 'the study of love'? It means something more along the lines of 'lover of words'
shirley, beppo, you meant here philologist for 'lover of words'; these things aren't *that* tricky. ;-)
-joe (pettifogulizing) friday
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I'd have thought that a peevologist is one who practices peevology, being merely the art or science of peeving.
Literally it must mean 'the study of peeves'. Some tactical display equipment is said to have 'symbology', which looks like variously shaped markers but is really the study of symbol [even gets a spell-check hit].
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symbology- Webster's 1913: "The art of expressing by symbols." (link).
- A-H: "1. The study or interpretation of symbols or symbolism. 2. The use of symbols." (link).
- Merriam-Webster's online: " 1: the art of expression by symbols; 2: the study or interpretation of symbols; 3: a system of symbols." (link).
- COED online: "1. the study or use of symbols. 2. symbols collectively." (link).
The resistance of even an uncommon word to a single meaning is refreshing.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Literally it must mean 'the study of peeves'. That was why I thought the word applied more correctly to zmjezhd than to those who express the peeves in the first place, the peevers or peevophiles. He certainly is a professor of peevology in that sense, as he collects, studies, analyses and critiques various peeves.
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peevesFor those who object to back-formations, such as orientate and burgle, nota bene that peeve is such a one from peevish. Regarding the ubi nasus Sphingis est? of a parallel thread, I am reminded of the strange little man who collects noses in Greenaway's masterful Belly of the Architect. A short history of the word peevologist and its meaning(s): ( link).
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Speaking of verbing nouns, what do folk think of "re-partnered" - a word I came across today in a newspaper article in the sentence:
"She said there was strong evidence to suggest women with low desire regained their interest in sex when they re-partnered."
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Don't know why you bring this up, but I would suggest you could change divorce to de-partner. Instead of divorced one could be ex-partnered.
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Don't know why you bring this up, but I would suggest you could change divorce to de-partner. Instead of divorced one could be ex-partnered. I just thought it was an interesting neologism. Yes, and maybe if you decided to stay married in a miserable union, you could be said to be "dyspartnered" or "malpartnered"?
Last edited by The Pook; 05/23/2008 1:05 AM.
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Unlike some neologisms it is at least clear in meaning.
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Unlike some neologisms it is at least clear in meaning. Not that that would mollify the proscriptivists.
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Unlike some neologisms it is at least clear in meaning. Not that that would mollify the proscriptivists. ...that would be the ones who say you should never say anything you haven't said before, right?
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Unlike some neologisms it is at least clear in meaning. Not that that would mollify the proscriptivists. ...that would be the ones who say you should never say anything you haven't said before, right? Seems that way sometimes.
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...This[/url] is probably the best refutation (or should that be refution?) of that idea that I have run across.
That is an excellent point in that 'refution' would at least reduce the risk of being subjected to 'refutate' often enough for the apologists to put it in a dictionary.
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Don't you think that a modicum of verbification has added richness to our language? I think what people object to are today's countless "verbifications of the moment". I'm talking about the tendency to turn a noun into a verb in order to sound a) importantly busy and b)importantly trendy. I am totally inconsistent in my views on this subject. I happily microwave food, access records, and go antiquing. Professionally, I have been known to say that a company headquarters in_____ or has partnered with _____, but I am somewhat ashamed of these crimes against grammar. I simply must draw the line at limosining somewhere, re-purposing something, gifting someone, or architecting a business plan. The Word Lady Words: Exploring Journalism, PR, and Literature http://words-elizabeth@blogspot.com
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Hello Lady
I agree, the richness of English is in large part due to it's flexibility, so is the messiness of English.
every blessing carries a curse.
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Curb, date, elbow, head, interview, panic, park, service, feature, chair, loan, office and contact were all nouns that were later verbed. Invite, command, meld and request were verbs that were later nouned. Past was an adjective that was later nouned. Clean and obsolete were adjectives that were later verbed.
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Don't you think that a modicum of verbification has added richness to our language?Folks use language to communicate. In doing so, they tend to use and mold their language to that purpose. It's a fairly normal phenomenon. English, like other fairly analytic languages ( link), can easily use a word of one lexical category ( link) as a different one (e.g., verbing nouns, nouning verbs) without resorting to affixation as in more synthetic languages ( link), such as Latin. The tendency of some to abhor this natural and common linguistic process is more likely a transference of the general disdaining of novelty in the vocabulary, coupled with a loathing on any hint of polysemy. (And welcome to the board. I took a look at your blog, but you may want to fix the link.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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but, lest we forget:
Verbing weirds language. - Hobbes
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but, lest we forget:
Verbing weirds language. - Hobbes Was that Hobbes or Calvin said that?
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I think you're right, but it was Hobbes (as usual) that made the telling point: Calvin: I like to verb words.
Hobbes: What?
Calvin: I take nouns and adjectives and use them as
verbs. Remember when 'access' was a thing?
Now, it's something you do. It got verbed.
Verbing weirds language.
Hobbes: Maybe we can eventually make language a
complete impediment to understanding.
-Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
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Hobbes: Maybe we can eventually make language a
complete impediment to understanding.
-Bill Watterson, Calvin and HobbesHey, why not? We invented language so we could lie anyway.
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enthusiast
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If y'all like verbing nouns, y'all'll love nouning verbs. Go ahead, read all the comments.
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