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... is identifying audacity as an absolute synonym ... IMO, if they have a single meaning in common that is recognized as being very nearly the same, then it can hardly be said that it is a "new" use. Perhaps one might have an edge over another in a particular context, but implying that it's out and out wrong I don't understand.
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IMO, if they have a single meaning in common that is recognized as being very nearly the same, then it can hardly be said that it is a "new" use. Perhaps one might have an edge over another in a particular context, but implying that it's out and out wrong I don't understand. First off I'm not implying that it's wrong, I'm stating explicitly that it's wrong. Indeed I thought I was being painfully explicit, but let me be even more so: The initial statement that I was referring to praised the use of the word gay in its original, non-sexual sense. Praised is a key word here. Using temerity in the context of praise is wrong. If you were teaching English to an advanced class of langauge students in say, Germany, you would point this out to them. It is the wrong word. Temerity is not a term of praise. It means foolish boldness. If your student were to go out into the world and use the word in an attempt to express praise they would be making an error. Audacity on the other hand, is a more flexible word. You might use the word to mean foolish or arrogant boldness, but you are not restricted to that sense of it. It can also mean admirable boldness, successful boldness. For example, MacArthur's landing at Inchon during the Korean War took audacity; the failed Bay of Pigs invasion during the Kennedy administration would be more of an example of temerity. As to having some meanings in common, the question is which meanings? The original poster meant to express admiration, and it is this meaning which is NOT shared by the two words. Or, more importantly, the note of praise that the writer meant to convey is missing from temerity, which conveys just the opposite sentiment.
Last edited by Alex Williams; 06/12/08 04:21 PM.
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No, it's not wrong. It may change the meaning of the sentence to not be what you expected. I don't think the original sentence intends means "praise", but recklessness, lack of fear of censure. Your strict negative meaning is your own interpretation. Other dictionaries' definitions of the word are even less open to your particular interpretation.
Last edited by Myridon; 06/12/08 04:11 PM.
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Wow! You guys must all be closer than I even knew, because you even know each other's intent! That's amazing!
I must be missing something, though, because I still don't understand why a person may not express his or her own positive emotion ("I'm glad...") about something seen as "foolish". This is how I interpreted (because I don't know anyone's intent for sure) the post. Is it forbidden to praise something foolish? As stated, the word itself does not contain any praise, but this was added (if you know the posters intent) by the poster, or at least the poster was happy to observe it. I don't understand why this is so objectionable.
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“objectation” does indeed have an extra something that influenced me to actually look the word-candidate up, which looking up resulted in my seeing oblectation, which I did not know, at the top of Dictionary.com's dictionary suggestions. Learning follows many a crooked road, doesn't it.
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Pooh-Bah
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Wow! You guys must all be closer than I even knew, because you even know each other's intent! That's amazing!
I must be missing something, though, because I still don't understand why a person may not express his or her own positive emotion ("I'm glad...") about something seen as "foolish". This is how I interpreted (because I don't know anyone's intent for sure) the post. Is it forbidden to praise something foolish? As stated, the word itself does not contain any praise, but this was added (if you know the posters intent) by the poster, or at least the poster was happy to observe it. I don't understand why this is so objectionable. Certainly a person may do just that, using language playfully, or using the word temerity ironically. I simply do not detect that use in the following passage (I could be wrong): I'm glad someone has the temerity to use gay to have a meaning other than the one currently most common. We should not lose perfectly good definitions to trends. And it isn't THAT big a deal. In my initial reply on this subject I was merely pointing out, as gently as possible, a distinction between a word's meaning and the message that the user intended, apparently, to convey. To me, using temerity to express a positive reaction is like using stench to praise a woman's perfume. I maintain that temerity is a word that conveys a sense of disapproval. Using http://www.onelook.com I entered temerity to see what other dictionaries say about it. Here is a partial but not exhaustive list: te•mer•i•ty [ tə mérrətee ] noun Definition: boldness: reckless confidence that might be offensive (Encarta
temerity • noun excessive confidence or boldness. (Compact Oxford English Dictionary)
noun [U] FORMAL DISAPPROVING a willingness to do or say something that shocks or upsets other people: [+ to infinitive] She had the temerity to call me a liar. (Cambridge Dictionary)
reckless or foolish boldness; rash disregard of danger. (Wordsmyth)
Foolhardy disregard of danger; recklessness (Bartleby.com)
Te*mer"i*ty (?), n. [L. temeritas, from temere by chance, rashly; perhaps akin to Skr. tamas darkness: cf. F. témérité.] Unreasonable contempt of danger; extreme venturesomeness; rashness; as, the temerity of a commander in war. Syn. -- Rashness; precipitancy; heedlessness; venturesomeness. -- Temerity, Rashness. These words are closely allied in sense, but have a slight difference in their use and application. Temerity is Latin, and rashness is Anglo-Saxon. As in many such cases, the Latin term is more select and dignified; the Anglo-Saxon more familiar and energetic. We show temerity in hasty decisions, and the conduct to which they lead. We show rashness in particular actions, as dictated by sudden impulse. It is an exhibition of temerity to approach the verge of a precipice; it is an act of rashness to jump into a river without being able to swim. Temerity, then, is an unreasonable contempt of danger; rashness is a rushing into danger from thoughtlessness or excited feeling. (Websters)
temerity - ( ) A form of extreme boldness (Grandiloquent Dictionary))Cambridge specifically identifies the word as one of disapproval, and the others use terms like reckless, excessive, foolish, rash, foolhardy, and unreasonable in their definitions. Only the last definition has the least bit of ambiguity about disapproval, using "extreme" which IMO expresses not quite the same judgement as the other adjectives.
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I'm glad someone has the temerity to use gay to have a meaning other than the one currently most common. We should not lose perfectly good definitions to trends. Begging your pardon, but I believe you are making a new use of the word temerity , which Merriam-Webster defines as "unreasonable or foolhardy contempt of danger or opposition." I think you mean to say audacity or courage, unless you're expressing schadenfreude at someone else's display of temerity. /This from a guy who once said "Platonic method" when he meant to say "Socratic method," and who can't keep Cormac McCarthy and Carson McCullers straight.I'm trying the “extreme venturesomeness” definition of temerity as given by Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, used in playful overstatement.
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That was the war of the wips? I would not mind asking what "flibbertigibbet" in fact could mean.
And if everyone would have the audacity to use "gay" in the "innocent" sense (hm.. innocent/normal ) then everyone could get back to saying homo again.
How would I call f.i. a gay pattern in a fabric? Cheerful? No.Happy? No.
Is there a synonym for gay in various uses?
A gay company to me is just a gay company ; not a company of gays. Etc.
Last edited by BranShea; 06/12/08 06:07 PM.
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I would not mind asking what "flibbertigibbet" in fact could mean. A flibbertigibbet is a person who is a bit scattered, mentally, kind of flitting through life in a random way. I don't know anyone who is always like this, but I do see people acting that way at times! In order not to further mangle this thread, I propose we do not get into a serious discussion about the use of "gay" in our various societies. Being lazy, I will say that the dead horses lie beaten here, here, and here.
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