|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347 |
Following through on a New Year's resolution to re-read 'The Go-Between' after 26 years (thoroughly enjoyed it, btw), I came across the curious word "ha-ha". I don't have the sentence verbatim, but the context was that there was a ha-ha separating the garden from the forest.
M-W tells me that a ha-ha (from the French haha) is a "sunk fence" (ugh! not sunken fence?), which I gather is a fence in a ditch.
My questions are:
1. Is this word still in use?
2. Is it a regional (UK?) thing?
3. Do sunk fences still exist? I can't recall having seen anything, anywhere, that would qualify for the description.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I associate the word with 18th or 19th century great houses surrounded by parkland. I'm sure hahas do still exist but it would be difficult to find a picture of one because the whole point was to make the fence invisible so that it wouldn't spoil the view.
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
My questions are:
1. Is this word still in use?
2. Is it a regional (UK?) thing?
3. Do sunk fences still exist? I can't recall having seen anything, anywhere, that would qualify for the description.
________________________________________________
1. Absolutely!
2. Quite conceivably a UK thing. I seem to recollect that they were a particular favourite of Capability Brown.
3. They definitely still exist, and can be found at any number of stately homes in the UK and also in some larger private houses. As Bingley says, the basic aim was to create a formal garden that the livestock couldn't get into, without in anyway compromising the view. I think it's usually a brick wall, rather than a fence, creating a sheer drop that the animals can't climb. On the other side, the land slopes gradually to the base of the wall - prevents the animals from being able to jump from one side of the ditch to the other.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
rkay's explanation of what a ha-ha is is unimpeachable. But whence came the word? I have always thought it very strange. BTW, occasionally the ha-ha will have a stream running through it. There is one that runs along side Kew gardens and Richmond Old Deer Park, West London, which is known as the "Minnie-ha-ha". It runs parallel to the R.Thames and was a favourite place for catching tadpoles and newts when I was a young lad (Ah, many years ago! sighs he in duet with Little Buttercup) 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
best I can do is this:
Collins states: C18: <F haha, prob. based on ha! ejaculation donating surprise.
which, I imagine you would be if you came across one unawares!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
It is a tradition of country houses in the UK, certainly. I believe that it dates from around the time of ‘Capability’ Brown’s impact on garden design. It can be thought of as a livestock-proof defensive ditch: the principle is that your line of sight sweeps an uninterrupted vista across the carefully manicured lawn and out in to the pasture beyond, dotted with suitably picturesque stock which are thus prevented from coming too close! The example at a grand house I worked at awhile back was fairly typical, in that the escarpment face of the moat was a stone wall, invisible from the house and dropping around 1.5m (4’ or so) from the level of the lawn. The other side of the moat was just a gentle slope back up to pasture level, so no animal injuries could occur. In this photo, you can see the wall face clearly from the pasture side of the ha-ha, but when standing on the lawn you simply see unbroken grass. http://www.retreat.co.uk/retreatpix/house1.jpgBTW, a great place to stay, if you are looking for somewhere around the Pembrokeshire Coast Path area!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
|
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347 |
Thankyou Bingley, rkay, Rhub and mav (great photo!) - just the sort of helpful responses that I expected!
The explanation about a vertical brick wall on one side and a gradual slope on the other was a great help. I'd been picturing something like a ditch or dry moat, possibly with a fence in the middle of it!
12 months ago I would have read the word ha-ha, maybe looked it up in a dictionary (but more likely not) and continued none the wiser. It's tremendous to have a forum like this to (a) fan the embers of my interest in words and (b) provide a valuable and fascinating resource for this sort of thing.
Cheers,
Marty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
The bronx Zoo uses the same sort of design in their outside "habitats". So you can look at a field-- with zebra in the foreground- and lions in the background-- and not see the "fence" that seperates them. From the Lion side, you see the wall is almost 10 feet high-- the lions "space" is almost like a little island--
Peacocks are allowed to roam free in the zoo-- and several years ago, one peacock's little pea brain-- didn't enlighten him to the purpose of the haha--
the haha in the tigers "cage" was enlarged after it was completed-- since the tigers, out of boredom, or maybe just because they were tempted by so much game, so close, where practicing "escaping" and came very close-- (and the "game" in question was a zoo keeper. )
But i don't remember the moat/embankment structure being called a haha at the zoo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
For me, the information in this thread fills out what had previously been nothing more than a crossword puzzle word. Thank you, all.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,915
Posts229,892
Members9,197
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
365
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
