|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1 |
My daughter asked this evening why the disease cancer was named after a crab. I figured I'd check here first!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Perhaps because it sticks to you as if it had claws? Let's wait for one of our resident etymologists to explain the connection... and welcome, Gizmo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
the tumour, according to Galen, was so called from the swollen veins surrounding the part affected bearing a resemblance to a crab's limbs. [OED2]
-joe (crabbit) friday
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2 |
Well, I am not only interested in etymology, but am also a practising radiation oncologist. There are loads of medical books explaining the etymology of "cancer". "Cancer" or the Greek "Canker" means "crab". Although one is not certain who coined this term, most books agree on Galen (which is sort of ironic, as he was a Roman physician and chose a Greek root; but then doctors have always loved esoteria... :-) ) Anyway, the term comes from the descriptive pathology of a usual malignant tumour (malignant is important, because you cannot/should not term benign lesions as cancer; and more importantly, or relevantly, the ancient ones recognised the entity of malignant & benign, and chose to name only the malignant one as "cancer"!) which spreads its claws in all directions, much like a crab, and has a tenacious tendency to hold on to the parent tissue even when resected, again like the creature.
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Cogito ergo sum!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 17
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 17 |
Hi! The info I have is in the same line. The word crab seems to have been used by classical greeks because some breast tumours, namely a type called "scirrous" gave -it is not the case today unless left without therapy- the breast the appearance of having been attacked by crab´s claws. I am a medical oncologist, and yes I have interest in ethymologies, as the origin of words give clues to the history of them, and old meanings, and meanings in different cultures give light to unsuspected connections, e.g. God,Gott, gauthi, gotha, ghost, gheist, Deus, Eloi, Allah, El-Al, Jainkoa, Dyaus, Zeus, Jupiter, Yahveh Adonay (Jhvh Dny) Juhuvah Adonayanam (jhvh dnynm), King, Koenig, Ganaka. Wikipedia contains a lot of resources on this
Last edited by Jose Gros; 08/28/2007 1:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
I seem to remember the reverend who gave the invocation at
Obama's inauguration invoking Isai, Yeshua, Jesus, etc.
toward the end of the prayer. In a way, however, by doing
so he ignored many by remaining totally in his own faith.
Not bad necessarily, just interesting.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
The Latin for crab (and cancer) is cancer, whence English cancer and canker; the Greek for crab is karkinos, whence English carcinoma. Galen wrote in Greek and used karkinos 'crab' for the disease cancer; Aulus Cornelius Celsus used the Latin word cancer in his De medicina. Greek has both ogkos, i.e., onkos, whence English oncology) and kele) for 'tumor' .
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
Wherever the term comes from it is catastrophic, and I hope
our two posters above who work in the field help find a
cure and soon.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
(which is sort of ironic, as he was a Roman physician and chose a Greek root The Latin for crab (and cancer) is cancer, whence English cancer and canker; the Greek for crab is karkinos, whence English carcinoma. Galen wrote in Greek and used karkinos 'crab' for the disease cancer; Aulus Cornelius Celsus used the Latin word cancer in his De medicina. Greek has both ogkos, i.e., onkos, whence English oncology) and kele) for 'tumor' . Very thorough as usual James! The only thing I can think to add is that the reason he would have written in Greek even though he was from a Roman family line himself, is that Greek was the linga franca of most of the Roman Empire at that time. Latin was the language of the Army and Civil Administration, but Greek was the language of the marketplace, science, religion and philosophy. It was only after the Empire split into East and West that Latin became more important in the Western half and eventually dominated European science and religion. Greek continued to be dominant in the Byzantine Empire. Galen also lived in Pergamum, at the more Greek end of the Empire. Of course if he live there now he would speak Turkish.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
And I believe the everyday spoken Greek was/is called Koine
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Koine It's handy Luke, to keep wikipedia as a favorite in your sideline. Though not always 100% accurate it serves for first check ups. Another one is OneLook: onelook on this page you can enter any word you want to know about and a whole list of online dictionaries turns up.
Last edited by BranShea; 01/27/2009 6:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
And I believe the everyday spoken Greek was/is called Koine
Sort of. Mostly only after about the first century BC. And that's probably not what the speakers back then would have called it, any more than earlier eras thought of themselves as speaking "classical" language, or people at Shakespeare's time thought they were using "Elizabethan" English. It's a later designation in order to distinguish it from Classical or Byzantine or Modern Greek.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
Koine It's handy Luke, to keep wikipedia as a favorite in your sideline. Though not always 100% accurate it serves for first check ups. Another one is OneLook: onelook on this page you can enter any word you want to know about and a whole list of online dictionaries turns up. Thanks for the reference. I know Wiki is not always reliable. I remember the "koine' from my scripture studies, thanks.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
And I believe the everyday spoken Greek was/is called Koine
Sort of. Mostly only after about the first century BC. And that's probably not what the speakers back then would have called it, any more than earlier eras thought of themselves as speaking "classical" language, or people at Shakespeare's time thought they were using "Elizabethan" English. It's a later designation in order to distinguish it from Classical or Byzantine or Modern Greek. And I understand this too. I suppose one day we will think we are speaking 'correct' English????
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
I seem to remember the reverend who gave the invocation at
Obama's inauguration invoking Isai, Yeshua, Jesus, etc.
toward the end of the prayer. In a way, however, by doing
so he ignored many by remaining totally in his own faith.
Not bad necessarily, just interesting.
Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer. Ironically, there is something about Christian prayer that is overlooked in the entire discussion (debate? argument?) because of a general ignorance of Christian doctrine, especially within the media. The fact of the matter is that when a Christian prays, he always invokes the Triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit,) whether the person specifically vocalizes the words "in the name of Jesus, etc." or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
Well, I am not only interested in etymology, but am also a practising radiation oncologist. There are loads of medical books explaining the etymology of "cancer". "Cancer" or the Greek "Canker" means "crab". Although one is not certain who coined this term, most books agree on Galen (which is sort of ironic, as he was a Roman physician and chose a Greek root; but then doctors have always loved esoteria... :-) ) Anyway, the term comes from the descriptive pathology of a usual malignant tumour (malignant is important, because you cannot/should not term benign lesions as cancer; and more importantly, or relevantly, the ancient ones recognised the entity of malignant & benign, and chose to name only the malignant one as "cancer"!) which spreads its claws in all directions, much like a crab, and has a tenacious tendency to hold on to the parent tissue even when resected, again like the creature.
Hope this helps.
Cheers. Has anyone connected the dots in this discussion by chasing down the possible link with the Zodiac? Why cancer?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
The fact of the matter is that when a Christian prays, he always invokes the Triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
I was under the impression that there were some non-trinitarian sects of Christianity about. Or are all the heretics extinct. (I thought of Arians (like Ulfilas the Goth) and the Ebionites.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
Me too. Non-trinitarians who, e.g., baptize only in the name
of the Lord Jesus. No trinity mentioned despite the words
of Jesus to 'baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit?"
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer.
I'm not sure what it was in his invocation that counts as invoking the name of Jesus early in the prayer unless it was the mention of "[a]lmighty God, our Father". Perhaps you can enlighten me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
The fact of the matter is that when a Christian prays, he always invokes the Triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
I was under the impression that there were some non-trinitarian sects of Christianity about. Or are all the heretics extinct. (I thought of Arians (like Ulfilas the Goth) and the Ebionites.) There are still plenty of non-Trinitarian groups around, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, United Pentecostals, etc. JW's are pretty similar to the ancient Arians in their doctrine of Jesus.
Last edited by The Pook; 02/01/2009 6:50 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
'
JW's baptize only in the name of the Lord Jesus. No trinity
involved.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
The fact of the matter is that when a Christian prays, he always invokes the Triune God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
I was under the impression that there were some non-trinitarian sects of Christianity about. Or are all the heretics extinct. (I thought of Arians (like Ulfilas the Goth) and the Ebionites.) There are still plenty of non-Trinitarian groups around, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, United Pentecostals, etc. JW's are pretty similar to the ancient Arians in their doctrine of Jesus. Agree with "The Pook." However, to borrow a phrase from a Christian Reformed [a Protestant denomination of American origin founded by Dutch immigrants] author whose name slips my mind right now (I think it may have been Van Baalen), these are the "step-children" of Christianity and not properly considered Christian. To reiterate, all Christians are able to confess the so-called Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed without "crossing their fingers" whether they are Orthodox or Catholic, Roman or Protestant, Reformed or Arminian, that is, they acknowledge the God who is one God in three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Trinity. If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer.
I'm not sure what it was in his invocation that counts as invoking the name of Jesus early in the prayer unless it was the mention of "[a]lmighty God, our Father". Perhaps you can enlighten me. I'll have to call up the text of Pastor Warren's prayer. When I do, I will cite the specific articulation that I consider invoked Jesus. PBP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
Actually, Pastor Warren invoked the name of Jesus relatively early in his prayer and, while doing so, personalized it so as to attempt to remove an offense against those who might not appreciate a specifically Christian prayer.
I'm not sure what it was in his invocation that counts as invoking the name of Jesus early in the prayer unless it was the mention of "[a]lmighty God, our Father". Perhaps you can enlighten me. I'll have to call up the text of Pastor Warren's prayer. When I do, I will cite the specific articulation that I consider invoked Jesus. PBP. Apparently, I cannot count very well or estimate early or late; but what I was referring to occurred in the 7th paragraph of Warren's prayer. The 6th-8th paragraphs were: "----Help us to share, to serve and to seek the common good of all. May all people of goodwill today join together to work for a more just, a more healthy and a more prosperous nation and a peaceful planet. And may we never forget that one day all nations and all people will stand accountable before you. We now commit our new president and his wife, Michelle and his daughters, Malia and Sasha, into your loving care. "----I humbly ask this in the name of the one who changed my life, Yeshua, Isa, Jesus [Spanish pronunciation], Jesus, who taught us to pray: "----'Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.' "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian. says you. and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
says you.
and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site. Yes please.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian. says you. and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site. I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian. says you. and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site. I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do. It varies. Some say we Trinitarians are followers of the devil. Others that we are just a bit misled or silly. Historically, the vast majority of Christians in the history of the world have regarded belief in the Triune nature of God as one of the touchstones of normal Christian belief. It is one of the few things that Orthodox, Protestants and Catholics all hold. Whether our belief is true is a question outside the bounds of this forum, but Von is right that most Christians would regard non-Trinitarians as outside the Christian Church. We are possibly sailing a bit close to the wind here, however no harm done since it has been a perfectly polite and non-argumentative discussion and the purpose of that rule is to avoid arguments.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107 |
If a religion cannot or does not acknowledge the Trinity, it is not Christian. says you. and this is why religious discussion is strongly discouraged on this site. I wonder what those who do not acknowledge the Trinity say about those who do. I certainly cannot speak *for* all of them; but I know some who acknowledge that Christians *are* Christians if they believe that God is a Triune God, a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The rub is that such people would say that Christianity is not *the* true religion in which to trust.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
To say nothing of Chacedonians, Nestorians, Monophysites.
I'm with etaoin: out of here for now.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
To say nothing of Chacedonians, Nestorians, Monophysites.
I'm with etaoin: out of here for now.
Actually (getting back to the words themselves...) that raises the whole interesting history of the construction of words to describe heterodox and orthodox beliefs (even those two words are interesting as well). That would be Chalcedonians I presume, btw. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Shouldn't the opposite of heterodox be homodox? And the opposite of orthodox would be levodox.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2 |
from biology to organic chemistry: Must things always be either/or ? if you add two radicals to a six-cornered benzene ring you can put them in positions called ortho- (adjacent) or para- (opposite) or meta- (separated by one). Then you can have "orthodox" and "paradox" and "metaphysicians" (ducking-to-avoid-the-thrown-vegetables smiley)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2 |
it seems to be going around. I just found this on Google, and it was posted January 29, 2009, it says. And I see this very thread is on there too (googled "orthodox paradox metaphysicians"), and I posted it less than 24 hours ago. I had no idea Google was that efficient...maybe that's what the visiting Spiders do? Incidentally - when I first came across that joke many years ago the add-on was not "-DOC" but "-MD." Same translation, though.
Last edited by wofahulicodoc; 02/06/2009 2:48 AM. Reason: Nope - it was Jan 31!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Those spiders are so fast that sometimes you find something out there you hadn't even written yet. (*_-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,066 Likes: 2 |
They must have been grown up eating thiotimoline
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,971 Likes: 3 |
WELCOME MIRAMAR
But no one has added anything since Feb 09 to this thread.
Maybe you could contribute and get it going again.
----please, draw me a sheep----
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74 |
You mean that just saying 'Welcome' doesn't add anything to the dialectic of the forum?
/sarcasm
The Lone Haranguer
|
|
|
|
|
